mirna

I've had my 2 ryukin goldfish for a month and now they both have red streaks on their tail fins and one is missing a couple of scales. The petstore told me that it was ammonia poisining because I had so much trouble getting the ammonia level down while my tank was cycling. My ammonia level is great and ph is good now. They eat very good and swim well. They look happy but I'm concerned. They share their tank with 2 angelfish, a rainbow shark and a pleco. I read on the fishyfarmacy website that it is Hemorrhagic Septicemia but in another site (klsnet) it says if fish have septicemia they don't eat and have clamped fins which my fish don't have at all. Should I treat my fish with Tetracycline? I'm not sure what to do.

Stradius011

How big is the tank? You shouldn't keep goldfishes with tropical fish since goldfishes are coldwater. The angelfishes might be the problem for the missing scales on the ryukins. The angelfishes probably are giving the ryukins a hard time at feeding time since angelfishes are fast and ryukins are slow and have long fins. I read about the red-vein thing before but I forgot it.

mirna

I have a 20g tank. I always watch my fish at feeding time. At first I used to throw the food in the tank but the goldfish would beat the angelfish. With my fish its the opposite, the goldfish are the aggressive ones. I stopped throwing food in because the goldfish would end up overeating. Now, I try to feed as closely as possible to each fish so each one gets a good portion. I don't just throw the food in the water anymore so I know all my fish eat even portions. I spend a great deal of time with my tank and I know the goldfish and the angelfish get along great.The temperature in my tank is kept between 75-79F.

Carillon

Hi there,

Red streaks can be a sign of dirty water and ammonia poisoning, but if your ammonia levels are fine, I really believe this sounds like hemorrhagic septicemia. This is a bacterial disease (though I believe there is also a viral version), and can be caused by dirty water, fin rot, and any other number of diseases. Some fish in advanced stages will show hemorrhaging around the eyes and gills and loss of appetite, but I've heard of milder versions of septicemia too, that don't come on as quickly. Most cases are coupled with lethargia, so you should watch for sluggish behaviour in your fish. To me, though, the red streaks really do indicate septicemia, especially coupled with the loss of scales. A lot of fish with septicemia will show red ulcers, which may look like lost scales I guess.

Hemorrhagic septicemia is a very serious disease, and can progress quite quickly. I've never had to deal with it, but I've read it's contagious, so be prepared to quarantine your fish if necessary. The treatments I've read about include Maracyn and Maracyn 2, as well as medicated fish food. You may want to contact a vet or a knowledgeable fish dealer to help confirm the diagnosis and suggest a treatment option, though. Oh, and when medicating, always remember to take the carbon out of your filter, if you have any in it. It will strip the meds right out of the water before they can do their job.

I hope your fish gets better!

p.s. You probably don't want to hear this, but most people will tell you that your goldfish really do need a tank to themselves with cooler water. Goldfish, even Ryukins, get pretty big, and a twenty gallon just isn't going to cut it eventually, especially one that they have to share with so many other fish.

mirna

Thank you, if it were hemorrhagic septicemia, do you know how long it would take before the fish started showing sluggish behavior. It's been 11 days since I saw the red veins on their fin tails and their behavior is great. The red veins did appear when the tanks ammonia levels were rising. My ammonia level came to read as high as 8.0 ppm. I had a lot of trouble cycling my tank and it was very frustrating. Since you say that red veins can be a sign of ammonia poisining, I'm thinking maybe it is. If it is ammonia poisining will the veinsgo away on their own? If so in how much time would they clear? Or do I have to medicate the fish for this reason too?

Carillon

I'm not sure how long it would take a fish to die from septicemia, or how long it would take to become sluggish. From what I've read, it can progress slowly, but still needs to be treated swiftly. I would imagine the rate of progression would depend on the fish, its health, and the severity of whatever the problem was, but that's just a guess. Also, in light of the fact that the streaks appeared at the same time as your ammonia spiked, this is almost certainly the result of ammonia poisoning, and the petstore made a correct diagnosis. Even though your ammonia levels are fine now, because the streaks were coupled with the ammonia spike, it is very likely that the two are connected, and it's important to look for connections like that when trying to diagnose a fish.

You should probably proceed with the broad spectrum antibacterial treatment, as the red streaks are still indicative of septicemia. If you've caught it soon enough, your fish may recover. However, depending on the severity of the damage, they may still die. Many fish subjected to accute ammonia stress die, and as such I think a lot of the disease charts will tell you that it isn't treatable, but you should still treat the problems that the ammonia caused.

Well, obviously, keep a VERY close eye on your water parameters. If the streaks appeared 11 days ago and the ammonia levels spiked around the same time, your tank is likely still either quite new or undergoing some change. Did you add fish recently? Did you medicate anyone? Medications can disrupt the colonies of good bacteria on the bottom of the tank, so a lot of people medicate in quarantine tanks. Keep testing your water, and taking steps to keep the ammonia levels safe.

All treatments will likely be based on the symptoms your fish display. I'm not a vet, but I know that ammonia poisoning can lead to internal hemorrhaging, and your fish display symptoms of internal hemorrhaging due to septicemia. Therefore, you want to try to treat the septicemia before it kills your fish. If your fish develops dropsy due to internal organs shutting down, you should treat for dropsy. If your fish appears to have gill damage, you should increase the aeration in the tank.

I think the bottom line is just to keep the fish as healthy as possible from this point on, treat any secondary problems you can diagnose with confidence, and wait. I'm going to also include a link that deals with ammonia stress and poisoning, which might help you.

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/water/ammonia.htm

mirna

Thanks for the great information. Now my problem is how do I go about treating the disease. I haven't treated any of my fish with medication because I wanted to make sure my diagnosis was correct. Now that I know I want to medicate them. I have a quarantine tank but its not cycled. I have all the necessary stuff and bought the medicine tetracycline but I'm worried about putting my fish in an uncycled tank. If I put them in the tank I'm scared they'll get worse because of the stress they'll experience in that tank. Should I just go ahead and put them in the uncycled quarantine tank? Also, is septicemia contagious? Will my other fish be sick too? If so, should I just move them all from the main tank? I just added a neon blue dwarf gourami today and am worried if he'll get sick too. Help please, I don't want my fish to die.

Carillon

I think at this point it is better to move your fish to the uncycled tank than to not treat them. You can control ammonia stress by doing frequent water changes, monitoring with a master test kit, and possibly using a chemical product to detoxify ammonia (like Prime). The tank should be filtered, but should not have carbon in the filter as this will remove the medication.

Treating fish doesn't seem to be a precise science yet, so a lot of what we do is just the best we can. If you're confident in the diagnosis and your choice of medication, then just follow the information on the medication as to how to treat. This is a link that has given me some good information on quarantining a sick goldfish -- hopefully it will be able to help you too.

As for your other fish, continue to monitor the water carefully and control any/all ammonia and nitrite spikes to the best of your ability. Since your tank seems to have finished cycling from what you say, you probably won't have as much trouble with this unless you do something to upset the balance of your tank. Avoid any rigorous cleaning, only vacuum part of the gravel at one time, and try not to add too many more fish until you're sure things are fine. I'm not sure whether septicemia from ammonia poisoning is contagious or not -- I know it's bacterial in nature, but that bacteria may be unable to harm other fish that were not stressed by the ammonia poisoning. Best I can tell you is to watch for symptoms of disease, and deal with them if they come up. Otherwise, I think you can assume the other fish are okay for now.

Again, don't consider myself an expert, and if you can find one in your area who would be willing to provide some advice, be they fish owner or vet, I highly recommend you do so. I sincerely hope your goldfish recover!