Psychlist1972

I have a 55g tank that has 3 goldfish: 1 comet and 2 common. The common are both about 5" and the comet is slightly smaller.

I want to put something else in the tank as, I have to admit, just the 3 goldies aren't holding my eye. I know, horrible, but it's true. I tried to make it up with plants, but the goldfish made quick work of those <g> (FWIW, I'm going to stop fighting it and I'm headed to the LFS this weekend to buy some plants that they'll find as a tasty snack)

I'd never get rid of them as they were the ones my wife rescued, and I am attached to them. Just need a little something to liven up the tank, something really eye-catching, but something that will be comfortable with and for the goldfish.

Without considering any sort of pure biotope, would you put any of these in a 55g tank with the 3 goldfish? Why/Why not?

• 1 Shubunkin (I am concerned about load and mature size)
• Denison Barb (right temp and pH)
• A school of long-finned white cloud mountain minnows (concerned about my max temp, which is about 76/77 in the summer)
• Platies (Xiphophorus variatus). I know these are tropical, but I have seen them recommended a few times now, and I see their temp is in the right range (64-77)
• Swordtail (right temp, but not sure about anything else)

There are currently 2 plecos in the tank. They are being rehomed (LFS) before anything else goes in. Bioload is a bit much and I won't be able to keep them when they grow larger. Other than that, I have some MTS and may get a nerite or two, but there's nothing else.

I do about a 40% water change weekly on that tank.

Pete

iloveengl

Hi Pyschlist,
3 goldfish in 55 gallons is already overstocked (especially with those plecos waiting to be rehomed). 30 gallons for one and ten gallon for each additional goldfish is the general rule, so it's no surprise that the bioload is so heavy. In my opinion, if you want to add more fish, which is understandable , I would highly suggest upgrading to a larger tank OR you could buy a 30 gallon & separate one of the goldies into it, which would allow you to add a nice school of the small fish to the 55 gallon. Either way, you really don't have room for a juvenile Shubukin & definitely not for an adult. I'm sorry this sounds like such a downer post, but I don't want your current goldies, which are clearly dear to you and your wife, to suffer from an overstocked tank.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Psychlist1972

Hi iloveengl

Thanks for replying.

According to everything else on this site and other reputable sites I've checked, 55 gallons is more than adequate for 3 goldfish, perhaps 4, (3 according to the 30/10/10 rule you mentioned). The recommendation most often quoted is 20/10/10/10 (which would be 50g total), so I take exception to the statement that the tank is already overstocked with just the 3 goldfish.

Please see: http://www.fishlore.com/Profiles-Goldfish.htm If that's not correct, the maintainer(s) should update it to ensure other folks don't rely on incorrect or marginally correct information.

Agreed with the plecos it is definitely overstocked (part of the reason they are going to go). I fell into the usual petstore algae-eater trap when I originally got them. The funny thing was, I only had a 10g tank at the time (a year ago), they knew I had 3 goldfish (I told them) and they recommended 2 plecos to keep the tank clean. ugh.

Thanks for the info otherwise. Sounds like even if the tank isn't already overstocked with 3 gf, it's rapidly approaching its limit, and any additions would either go over or push it right up against the limit, giving me no wiggle room.

FWIW, The tank does well on all the parameters, even with the plecos. I have an aquaclear 110 (500gph) on the back that definitely helps there. The plants and the water changes keep nitrates in check, even though those remain in the low to acceptable ranges even right before the water changes.

BTW, I remeasured the fish this morning. The large one is 6" including tail, the middle one is 5-5.5", and I couldn't get the comet to sit still to be measured, but he's slightly smaller, maybe 4.5-5 including the long tail. You can see pics here:
Are goldfish (common, comet) a shoaling fish? The middle one has grown quite a bit since that pic. That was taken shortly after I moved them into the 55g from the 20g they were in.

Pete

gremlin

I wouldn't recommend any more goldies. Like you said, it would push the limit on stocking, but mostly because they just need the room to swim. I don't have a whole lot of experience with white cloud mountain minnows, but I have found a fish that I really like that seems to be doing just fine in my pond this summer. It is the American Flag Fish. It is a very colorful algae and insect larvae eating fish. It is recommended to have 1 male to 2-5 females as the males can be aggressive towards each other. You could start out with 1 male and 2 females and see what you think. I have seen them for sale at LiveAquaria.com although I found mine locally.

Here is link to liveaquaria's flag fish...

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...76&pcatid=2776

iloveengl

Hi Pete,

I do apologize for the mis-quote -- you can see what happens when I don't sleep at night I certainly didn't mean to imply insult to you, nor did I intend to raise any hackles through my rhetoric, but only to ensure the well-being of fishies that you and your wife clearly care for.

Psychlist1972

@iloveengl

No problem. I must apologize, myself. My 3 1/2 yo son got to bed late last night and was up very early, so I've been pretty cranky today :P I get what you're saying about sleep

Pete

Butterfly

White clouds are an excellent choice for cool water tank mates. There are several cool water fish suggested in my cold water aquarium book but the first thing to consider is whether the other fish will out compete your goldies for food.
Suggestions in my book are White clouds(which I like best), three spined stickle backs (get to 3.5 inches), Japanese rice fish(get to 1.5 inch). Some of those may be hard to fisD but would make for a good search .
Carol

Red1313

are these guys fancy or common goldies? (different stocking rates) though I'm sure you're fine. Since the tank is indoors you can try googling various subtropical fish. some good links I've found are:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/subtroptks.htm
http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/...le.asp?id=1054

Just a word of caution. While Paradise fish are subtropical they tend to be too aggressive for goldfish tank-mates.
Good Luck!

Psychlist1972

@Red1313

Thanks.

Two common and one comet. They were raised from carnival fish that were dumped in the creek near the carnival (there were TONs in there), and then caught a few weeks later by my father in law and wife.

We've had them since last October. Started in a bowl, then a 10g the next day, then a 20g a bit later, and recently into a 55g. I'd dig for a pond if I didn't live on such a hill

Pete

gremlin

You don't have to let the hill stop you digging a pond. It would actually make it a bit easier to do the waterfall... Use block to terrace the high side, the dirt you dig out can be used to build up the low side. Build a stream or waterfall down off the high side with the pump and filter on the low side.

I still think the american flag fish would look good. You would really be able to see their colors in an aquarium...

Psychlist1972

@gremlin

with a 1:2 slope (steeper in spots), and woods full of raccoons and foxes, I'd probably had a hard time with a pond. Could be interesting to try some day, though.

The flag fish is a killifish, right? Dies every year? They do look beautiful, though.

Pete

whisper

Hi Pete. Your common and comets both are going to grow to be 9"-12" each. They are very dirty fish which I'm sure you're aware of by now. Also because of this you will get huge volumes of ammonia levels. You will have a hard time keeping these levels even. Also goldfish should not be in heated water. These are cold water fish a relative of the wild carp fish. I urge you to give the pond idea seriouse thought. Also the shubunkins will grow to a good size. LOL can you tell I'm a strong believer that goldfish belong in ponds? They winter over just fine even the fancies which we have in our pond along with Koi and a variety of different goldies. They hibernate just fine. Also, pleco's are one of my favorite fish but in your situation I'm glad to hear you're going to get rid of them.

Psychlist1972

@whisper

Thanks. I've had no problems with ammonia, and I do check it regularly. I imagine it will go up over time as they get big. Nitrates are what usually spike for me, and why I need to change as much water as I do. Goldfish aren't overly friendly to nitrate-reducing plants :P

Also, I don't heat the tank. Not sure why you thought I did. In fact, it's much cooler in my basement office here than it is outside

Truthfully, almost all fish (including most tropicals) should be in something much larger than a fish tank. Almost every Koi pond I've seen, except for the kinds of ponds you find on farms, seems insanely small for such a large fish. While I can see a case made regarding water quality, I don't believe goldfish are an exception here. It's a good cause, though.

As to the pond idea: my property is just not at all conducive to a pond. It is extremely well-draining sand, on a 1:2 slope (much more as you get about 20' out from the house) draining down to a ravine with the headwaters of the South River at the bottom. In addition, because I back up to the woods, I have multiple types of owls (one got the neighbor's cat one year), foxes, tons of raccoons, a serious mosquito/west nile problem, and supposedly black bear from time to time, but I haven't actually seen bear myself. That doesn't seem like a great combination for a pond.

Here are some (6 year old) views of the back yard:
http://www.irritatedvowel.com/HomeIm...ugust2003.aspx

The view from the woods really shows the slope well, and that is the mild slope. The worse is the ravine to the left in that pic. The only semi-flat areas in the yard hold the septic tank and its two dry wells.

Combine all that with the fact that there's no way to get any even moderately heavy equipment around to the back yard (I hope we never need the septics tank dug up) and it makes a pond a great idea, but a non-starter.

Pete

whisper

WOW Pete. Great pics. Sorry about the damage done by the storm. Well good luck with the 55 gal. and let use know what you get for it.

Psychlist1972

Thanks. I'm probably going to leave it with just the 3 goldfish. I do need to move the plecos out, though - they don't really belong in there.

Oh, and my wife says if I can find a way to put a pond back there, I can find a way to put in a pool. lol

Pete

gremlin

It doesn't die every year - From what I found, their lifespan is 5-8 years. Not as long as goldfish, but still, not bad for a small fish.

http://theaquariumwiki.com/Jordanella_floridae