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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| so, talk me out of this...
My last experience keeping goldfish was the typical beginners' overstocking nightmare - 15 fantails in a 10g tank. If I got goldies again I'd like to do it properly, but I don't see any reason to have to buy a new tank. I've read the caresheets and fish profiles on goldfish, and have also done a little bit of extra research although I should do more. My question is, why couldn't two fantail goldfish live quite happily in a 20g tank? provided it had adequate filtration? I understand the 20g first fish/10g each additional fish criteria in the context of comets, but fantails (I've read) grow to be up to about 6", so why wouldn't this work? | 
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| i suppose you could probably make it work, i mean, looking at my 20 gallon right now i feel like two goldies would probably fit, but i'd probably get a filter rated for at least a 55, or go with whatever would have 16x turnover for GPH | |
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| Just keep up on water changes and do 50 percent per week and you should be fine  I had three in my 29 gallon before I moved them to my outdoor pond. Why should we talk you out of this?  Goldies are so pretty and are so much fun! | |
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MissMTS  Why should we talk you out of this? Goldies are so pretty and are so much fun! | I don't mean talk me out of goldies, I mean talk me out of keeping 2 in a 20g if that's really not in their best interests...
I love goldies. A whiles ago I was toying with the idea of getting a 60g and putting only fantails in there. I love the idea of keeping them 'properly' rather than in a bowl or a teeny tank like I used to when I didn't know any better. I'm having issues w. camallanus right now and there's a few routes that could take, but most have the common end that the 20g will be empty. I have had something happen to wipe out my stock 3X in the past 6 months and I've found that my troublems start with the introduction of new fish...so I thought Hey, less fish, less introductions...Hey, I like goldies... | |
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Mentor
| Two of the fancy goldfish would to ok in the 20 gallon. They don't swim as fast as the common/comets do, so they don't need quite as much room. They can grow to more like 8 - 10 inches though, not just 6 inches. A 20 gallon long would be better than a 20 gallon high, as it would give them that much more horizontal swim space. Definitely get a filter rated for 40 gallon minimum (preferably more) or have two filters. You may be able to find a snail or two that could help with algae, but I wouldn't put any other fish in with them since you will be pushing the bioload as is. Keep the decorations in the corners or ends so there is a large open swimming area for them. | |
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| No other fish. Minimally decorated. Algae is the least of my troublems atm. I'm thinking of a canister filter actually, still dickering on flow rate considerations...it's a 20 high. Probably would also have an airstone of some sort, may stick a sponge filter on that...8-10 inches huh? hmmm...still think they'd be ok... | |
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| I think you would be fine
They love anarchis plants so if you put some of that and maybe some java fern in the corners it would be great for them. | |
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Lots of current ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by agabr123 i suppose you could probably make it work, i mean, looking at my 20 gallon right now i feel like two goldies would probably fit, but i'd probably get a filter rated for at least a 55, or go with whatever would have 16x turnover for GPH | I am a newbi but I think that would be a lot of current .. | |
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew 43920 I am a newbi but I think that would be a lot of current .. | it would but the goldies could probably handle it, especially with plants and such to break up the current, preferably she would get a canister filter rated for a 55 so that way the current would be significantly less, but they can be pricey. | |
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March 23rd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by agabr123 preferably she would get a canister filter rated for a 55 so that way the current would be significantly less, but they can be pricey. | She's looking at canister filters in general atm and wanting something that pumps 160-250 gph regardless of the eventual stocking...funny how canisters with say 119 gph are recommended for 55g tanks I think (just examples). Ones with this high flow rate are recommended for up to 75 gallons. Goldies swim slow but they're decently sized fish and I'm sure they could handle it. Filtration will definitely be more important for them as they're 'messy' but I'll make sure that's taken care of. Just don't want them to be cramped as I plan on having them for a good long time | |
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March 24th, 2009
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| | Fish Helper
| Hi, i luv these fish too! I think the smell will kill you. You could TRY ammonia block in your canister and do a water change every other day; 50% weekly is too sharp o' fluctuation in water parameters, and is usually reserved for emergancies such as ammonia or nitrite spike plus. Plus upset in WP causes stress on GF and they get ick in a second. Don't overlook less fancy GF there are many cute, commons that will thrive in a 20g. | |
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March 24th, 2009
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| | Fish Mentor
| Quote:
Originally Posted by catfishtabbi Hi, i luv these fish too! I think the smell will kill you. You could TRY ammonia block in your canister and do a water change every other day; 50% weekly is too sharp o' fluctuation in water parameters, and is usually reserved for emergancies such as ammonia or nitrite spike plus. Plus upset in WP causes stress on GF and they get ick in a second. Don't overlook less fancy GF there are many cute, commons that will thrive in a 20g. | Dr's Foster and Smith has "white diamond" and "white diamond blend". The white is an ammonia absorbing rock and the black is carbon. They also have larger 'rocks' that are the ammonia absorbing rock that can be placed around inside the tank as part of the decorations. Here is a link for them: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...2&pcatid=14432
As for commons in a 20 gallon - not really a good idea. They need more swimming room than the fancies and will grow larger than most fancies. If you want a goldfish that you can keep in a tank inside, then it is better to stick with the fancies as they can do well with less swimming room than the commons, comets, and shubunkins as long as the water quality is kept up. Fantails are an excellent choice as they are a bit sturdier than some of the other fancies. | |
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March 24th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Thx for all the suggestions...why would I need ammonia-absorbing anything though if the filter is cycled properly (as it would be)  | |
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March 24th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| I would worry about a canister and a 20 gal high....I agree that it might be a bit much and the goldies wouldnt have a space for that much flow...they are more horizontal swimmers in general....id up my water changes (if the parimeters require it) instead of going for more gph...and if you do go with the higher gph, get some filter media for the outtake valve so they dont get pushed all around ...but you are knowledgeable to know when a water change is needed and how to keep them clean and happy so I say go for it! | |
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March 24th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Thanks all, you've been very helpful
I originally thought I was losing all my fish and was thinking about how to re-stock...seems I'm not losing fish  Which means I'll probably keep the same fish in the 20g as are in there atm, as well, they got there first, and it doesn't sound like this particular setup is 'ideal' for goldies.
I still want goldies someday but I want to do it right...if I find the money and the space and I think the floor won't bust, what I'd like to do is get a 55-60g and put 5 fantails in it. They would be so pretty! and then they'd have plenty of room to swim...this likely won't be for a good long whiles though...I'd like to get my current tanks up and running disease- and parasite-free for more than 3-4 months at a time first...
Thx again! | |
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March 25th, 2009
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| | Fish Mentor
| Quote:
Originally Posted by prairielilly Thx for all the suggestions...why would I need ammonia-absorbing anything though if the filter is cycled properly (as it would be) | Just because goldies put out so much waste. The ammonia absorbing rocks help to take some of the load off the filter and provide additional places for the good bacteria to grow. They won't be able to absorb all of the ammonia (unless you have a bunch of them), but they will help to control the ammonia in your tank. | |
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April 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Another newbi to this forum, BUT I HAD a 20 gallon tank and LOTS of problems with water clarity, ammonia poisoning (red streaks) gasping for air and STINKY water. After a year of disasters, I bought a 30 gallon tank for the same 2 Fancy Tailed Goldfish, and bought a Aqua Clear Filter --- NO More Stink, they swim around like they're suppose to (usually). During their days in the 20 gallon tank, they had fin rot, dropsey, and other issues....which I pulled them through. You do NOT want to change more than 25% of your water at a time-Usually once a week, and do NOT clean your filter the same day, ..but you do have to wipe down the sides because Goldies are beautiful but "dirty" fish (sorry, but it is true). AND too strong of a flow from a too large filter, makes them hide in corners.........so buy a filter for a 30 gallon tank or maybe a 50, but I like the Aqua Clear because you can adjust the flow and add bio media, ammonia media and the sponge assists with the bio needs and filtering...There's room for ammonia remover pads and phosphate remover pads. My goldies are very large and I've only had them about 3 years....approx 7" -8" long including the tails.
Life is good when you have access to a 5 year old that can assist with your ever changing techi world | |
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April 15th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by grannypammy2j2 Another newbi to this forum, BUT I HAD a 20 gallon tank and LOTS of problems with water clarity, ammonia poisoning (red streaks) gasping for air and STINKY water. After a year of disasters, I bought a 30 gallon tank for the same 2 Fancy Tailed Goldfish, and bought a Aqua Clear Filter --- NO More Stink, they swim around like they're suppose to (usually). During their days in the 20 gallon tank, they had fin rot, dropsey, and other issues....which I pulled them through. You do NOT want to change more than 25% of your water at a time-Usually once a week, and do NOT clean your filter the same day, ..but you do have to wipe down the sides because Goldies are beautiful but "dirty" fish (sorry, but it is true). AND too strong of a flow from a too large filter, makes them hide in corners.........so buy a filter for a 30 gallon tank or maybe a 50, but I like the Aqua Clear because you can adjust the flow and add bio media, ammonia media and the sponge assists with the bio needs and filtering...There's room for ammonia remover pads and phosphate remover pads. My goldies are very large and I've only had them about 3 years....approx 7" -8" long including the tails.
Life is good when you have access to a 5 year old that can assist with your ever changing techi world | I'm glad your goldies are doing better and there's some good advice. However just one comment. It is probable that your 20 gal was overstocked which would have been the cause of a lot of your problems and the reason why they corrected once you moved to the 30 gal. The general stocking rule of goldies is 20 gals for the first fish and 10 more for each additional fish.
Welcome to fishlore we're glad to have you. | |
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April 15th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| I still think goldies are adorable and I'd love to have them someday...though at the moment with only a 20g tank I don't feel they would be entirely comfortable, even just one, as a fish that's 6" plus in a 24" long tank would be pretty cramped to say the least - they'd only be able to swim forward 4x their own body length or less, and that's no way to live for years and years IMO. Until I get a larger tank, I'm going to stick with fish that stay small. Thanks for all the feedback and advice! | |
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April 15th, 2009
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Thank you. And that would be correct - overstocked with just 2 gold fish in a 20 gallon tank. I plan to move one to the 20 gallon tank and let the other remain in the 30 gallon tank.....and decorate them to the hilt. That's the FUN part. I felt so bad having put them through so much. When I had a Floating Plant, they were very happy, and even laid eggs! --but they ate them all the next day  , and I suspect none were fertilized as both goldies appear to be of the same sex. Having had a tropical tank for years before, I was not prepared for so much work with goldfish! BUT I strive for a continuous happy home for them. | |
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April 16th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| I'm trying to get ahold of a tank large enough for 3 goldies that I saw a few days ago... not as easy to come by cheap as i'd like  | |
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All things Goldfish. Also check out the Goldfish Profile for care information and the Goldfish for Beginners article.
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