ValhallaSky

I've had by Ryukin goldfish for almost a year now, and he was suprisingly very happy in his 1 gallon tank for quite a while. He's had a total of two fungal infections, but both times it was very easily treated.

I will be moving the fish into a 15 gallon aquarium by the end of the month for a few months until I can get a 30 gallon. So don't worry, my poor baby won't be cramped for too long.

Unfortunatly, I've been getting sick a lot the past 5 months and the aquarium health suffered because of it. This is also the reason why he hasn't been moved into a larger aquarium before now. Anyway, I'm used to caring Angelfish, so I wasn't prepared for the amount of waste my goldfish produced. As a result the tank got rather filthy on a several occasions, and sometimes in a matter of only 3 days. Because of this he has red vein-like streaks running through his tailfins. He also developed a couple of "blisters" on one of his tailfins that have nearly finished healing. He's only recently started to become lethargic, but responds well to me when I give him attention.

But that's only part of the story.

I also switched his food from standard TetraFin Tropical Flakes to the TetraFin Goldfish Flakes, and since then he's started loosing his orange pigmintation and started choosing to float upside down. He has no problem turning back over and acting like his usual self, but it's still concerning. It was also after changing his food that he's become lethargic when not being stimulated by my company.

SO I got on the internet today and it seems I'm doing all sorts of things wrong and a lot of the information is contradictory. What I really need is some straight forward answers about what's going on and how to fix it. I really don't want to loose my fish because he's been my companion through out my illness.

Before I start asking my questions, let me state that I transfered him to a large mixing bowl today with room temperature bottled water and stuck the airation stone in it to oxygenate the water (plus a drop of API "stress coat"). He's already acting happier and isn't floating upside down. However, to get him into the 15 gallon tank, he's going to need to survive a short road-trip to my parents' house. Thus, he's going to need to be healthy enough to make the trip.

So, is it possible he's simply turning himself upside-down because he's outgrown his tank? The upside down-ness is NOT limited to right after I feed him. In fact, he stays right side up for a little while after the feeding. A couple of sites claimed that I should fast him for 3 days to fix the floating upside down issue. Should I do this in my fish's case?

What should I do to treat the red veins? Aside from his loss of color and the nearly healed "blisters", he has no other physical abnormalities. The first red vein showed up 3 or so months ago, but the number of them has been increasing on occasion.

Is the fish food I'm giving him now causing the loss of color? What food is recomended that I switch him to? Several sites claimed that a sinking food would be a lot better, and I'm wondering if this is true. And even then, is there a specific one I should give him?

One site claimed that it's not recomended to have gravel in a goldfish tank because gasses form and will be trapped under the rocks, and given the goldfish's nature of turning over gravel, this could be quite bad. I beleive this is how he got the "blisters" from what I've read. I also saw him spit out a rock today while he was upside down. So what should I replace the gravel with? Or should the bottom of the aquarium be bare?

And really, what IS the best aquarium setup for a goldfish? The types of filters, etc. My dad used to raise fish when he was younger, so there's always been fish surrounding me in all parts of my life. I even had an Angelfish in my bedroom for 7 years. But my dad pretty much delt only with ciclids, so I didn't realize a goldfish would be that different as far as tank requirements.

I feel like a horrible fish-mom now, so any help you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and when my goldfish is healthy, he's always very energetic and LOVES attention from people. When I first got him he was TINY (as in, he could sit comfortably in a 1 cup measuring cup) and was more intrested in me than the net that scooped him up at the pet store. So I keep him in the living room where I spend most of my time, and my house guests love watching him and waggling their fingers at him. So he's not lonesome. I also feed him small meals 2-3 times a day.

pinkfloydpuffer

Don't feel bad, it's good that you are trying to fix his situation. The best thing you can do for him is keep him in ammonia-free water. 20 gals is recommended for a single goldfish. I've never kept a goldfish, so I don't know all the specifics, but there are many here who have. If you can, get prime or ammolock to use for his water (since there's no cycling happening).

Lucy

Welcome to Fish Lore

I'm sorry you're goldie isn't doing well. Please don't blame yourself, it sounds like you're doing all you can for him now and that's what counts.

I'm not an expert, but I think the red veins could be a result of a bacterial infection. Swim bladder problems could cause him to not be able to stay upright. I believe this is also a bacterial infection.

Like pink said, frequent water changes will keep the ammonia down and using Prime as your water conditioner will help detoxify the ammonia for 24 hrs.

As far as the 15g., that's a great start. Gravel is ok, but it should be large enough not to fit in his mouth.

This will help you prepare the tank for him:
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm


We have several members who keep goldies, I'm sure they'll see this and be able to help you further.

Good luck and keep up posted.

ValhallaSky

*sigh* I wish I had been able to take action sooner though. At least now that he's in the fresh water he's acting rather happy. Though I've noticed it looks like there's small flakes of "skin" floating in the clean water. Should I be worried?

Lucy

I'm glad he's happier in fresh water.

Are you sure it's skin and not something left on the bowl?

gremlin

The red veins could be either too much ammonia or too much stress. Both can cause the red veins. Melafix and frequent water changes as well as some type of ammonia neutralizer will help with that. There are color foods that you can get to help him maintain his color. I would actually recommend a pellet form instead of a flake. In my experience, the flakes dissolve so fast, that they actually add to the problem of ammonia in the tank more than the pellets do. The floating upside down thing has got to be a swim bladder issue. Either from the change in diet or from gulping too much air when he sucks in his flakes. The pellets may help with that also as they are large enough that he can suck them in without getting too much air at the same time. As for filters, I would recommend a filter designed for twice what the tank size is. For instance, a 15 gallon tank with a 30 gallon filter. It is ok to have gravel in the bottom of the tank - when you do your water changes, make sure you vacuum the gravel to get the gunk out. Also, goldfish will suck on the gravel to get any moss off of it, so make sure the gravel is larger than the fishes mouth. You could also use the flattened glass marbles or river rock. You don't really need to worry about a heater as goldfish are temperate/cold water fish and like the temp change from day to night. Good luck and please keep us informed on how your Ry is doing....

ValhallaSky

Thank you all for your input.

My dear fish has not been floating upside down since I put him in the large mixing bowl, which is a big relief. And I got him some "all natural" pellets, which he seems to really enjoy. I'll worry about his color once he's healthy again. Besides, it wasn't until I put him on the Goldfish Flakes, which "improve color", that he lost his color.

I also bought some ammolock (I couldn't find any Prime).

I'm not too sure about the "skin" I saw floating. I did clean out the bowl rather throughly before I transfered him.

Given that I'm going to be treating him for the ammonia poisoning he got, will the medication suggested by Gremlin effect the cycle of the tank if I treat him in there? Or should I treat him in the one gallon before I move him? I have a few days seeing as how I can't set up the new tank until Saturday at the earliest, and I'll want to let that get a good cycle going.

Lucy

Melafix is an anti bacterial medication, so there's a good chance it'll effect the cycle.
You might want to treat him in the 1g.
It's probably a good idea to cycle the 25g before adding him being he is sick, he might not make it through the cycling process which can take up to a month.
I don't have personal expience with it, but several members have used Tetra Safe Start to cycle their tank within days.

Prime is different than ammo-lock. Prime is a water conditioner that also detoxifies the ammonia yet makes it available to the benefical bacteria whereas ammo-lock locks the ammonia making it unavailable to the bacteria. So using ammo-lock in a cycling tank wouldn't be a good idea.

ValhallaSky

ah. Okay. Would the ammolock be ok to use while I'm treating him then? As in, while he's in the mixing bowl or the 1 gallon tank, given those are not cycled and I need to control the ammonia? I've been using API StressCoat everytime I change his water ever since I've had him.

I uploaded some photos of him into my photo album that I took earlier today. You can see the total loss of orange color on his back, as well as a few of the red veins. I also discovered he totally loves getting his picture taken.

Lucy

I love goldies, they have great personalities.

Ammo lock is ok in an emergency situation, but you can control the ammonia with partial frequent water changes also.
Stress coat is a good conditioner.

gremlin

Treat him with the melafix in either the 1 gallon or the bowl - but only if the bowl is glass. It is really not a good idea to keep a fish in a metal or plastic bowl as the ammonia and the medications/water treatments can react with the metal or plastic. If the bowl is plastic, it could be the flakes are pieces of the inside of the bowl that are flaking off as a result of the ammonia or medications in the bowl.

ValhallaSky

The bowl is a nice thick glass. Funny thing is the gallon tank is plastic.


I have a couple of stupid questions...

One, I've never used food pellets before, and they're a somewhat small size, so I'm wondering how many I should give him? They're a smidge smaller than grapenuts.

Two, what'd be the best way for me to get his poo out of the bowl? I don't exactly have a syphon here at my apartment and his water is already getting a little dirty. (I'm gonna go do a partial water change right now.) And how frequently should I do the partial water changes?

Oh, and I'm starting to run low on bottled water... Since the stress coat is ment to "purify" tap water for the use for fish, would it be ok to do that? I'm a little concerned about the change in water temperature or something possibly being in the water that'll hurt him. Should I boil some water and then let it cool over night? Or am I being too paranoid?

gremlin

The plastic used in fish tanks is different than the plastic used in mixing bowls - that is why I said that about the plastic bowl.
Food pellets, put in 4 or 5 and see if he eats them. You can feed him the pellets the same way you would feed him the flakes, just bear in mind that it will take fewer pellets to fill him up than it does flakes. If he is used to you and will come up to your hand in the water, you can hold a pellet about an inch under the water and see if he will eat it out of your fingers.
Do you have any tubing that is about 1/2 inch diameter or bigger? You can use this to make a siphon just by coiling a piece of it in the bowl with all the air out of it, then cover one end with your thumb and put it down into the sink or a bucket or whatever and use the other end like a vacuum hose to suck the gunk out of the bottom of the bowl. Or, if you had two containers, put him in another container with about half of the water scooped out of his current bowl, being careful not to stir up to much stuff, then just rinse it out and refill it about half way and put him and the old water he is in back in the bowl. Or, you could use a turkey baster to suck up the gunk in the bottom and remove part of the water...
The main thing with the tap water is to make sure you treat it to remove the ammonia. You can treat the new water in the bowl before you put the fish and the old water back in. That way you don't have to worry so much about the ammonia, since you will be treating it. As for the temperature, If they are both sitting at room temp, there shouldn't be too much difference between the two. Goldfish can handle a couple of degrees diffference without too much stress, so you don't need to have the water identical in temperature. As long as he is in such a small container and is not feeling well, I would do a 25 percent water change each day. That will let you clean out any gunk and remove a good part of the ammonia.
Good luck and please keep us posted...

Lucy

You can use a turkey baster to pick up waste.

Normally tap water doesn't contain ammonia, it has chlorine and other heavy metals. Stress coat will take care of that.