Dozey

I know I have brought up this issue before but I thought I would bring it to the attention of seasoned members again as I’ve notice a recent trend to recommend Tetra Safe Start as an alternative to a fishless cycle. I would again like to point out that Tetra’s product data sheet on this product reads, “Reduces ammonia levels by 10 times and nitrite levels by 14 times”.

I don’t want to suggest that TSS isn’t a wonderful product that greatly reduce fish’s exposure to toxins and can quickly cycle an aquarium in 7 to 10 days. But again it does not completely eliminate a fish’s exposure to the nitrogen cycle and therefore potential harm. And although it has worked for many members as advertised it has also failed for others.

I do suggest TSS to new members that follow their LFS’s advice to run their tank for 2 days and add fish that can not return or re-home their fish. But to suggest the use of TSS as an alternative to a fishless cycle IMHO is irresponsible when the new member has the opportunity to do a fishless cycle.

IMO opinion this is a bit like suggesting someone feed their puppy steroids if they can’t wait for their dog to grow naturally.

So IMO…
Q. Is TSS a great product?
A. Yes it is.

Q. Is TSS a great alternative to a fishless cycle?
A. No it isn’t.

And from members experiences…
Q. Does TSS work 100% of the time?
A. No it doesn’t.

Red1313

TSS works if you just feed it ammonia as well.
All the benefits of fishless only on super speed.

tomchitown

worked for me and failed for. i think i changed water to soon 1st time around

Dozey

That's amazing! I’ve wanted to test that very theory for some time but haven’t had the opportunity to. So am I correct that you used TSS and pure ammonia to cycle an aquarium?

I understand that it works as advertised for many people. I’m simply suggesting that is not an alternative to a fishless cycle (if possible) as it still exposes fish to toxins.

Red1313

No. However I've got a little bit left and a 2.5 gal tank that I'm sterilizing and recycleing... I could probably be persuaded to try. I don't see why it wouldn't work since fishless cycling ammonia somehow manages to cycle a tank. To a Bacteria cell ammonia is ammonia. Their metabolism just says "Food!" not "hmm not from a fish"...

haedra

I used Safe Start in my 10 gallon with my corys. But I probably will never do that again.

Why? Because even though they all survived, and they never really showed any signs of distress, it was distressing for ME! I worried about them constantly. I think Safe Start is an awesome product, when you don't have another choice; such as not being able to return fish to a place where you have gotten bad advice. Or even better, if you need to medicate and your medication kills your biological filter. As well, if you experience a mini cycle for unknown reasons, or a fish dies, etc. I think in those instances it can be a lifesaver. But I will never choose to use it again with a new tank and fish if I can avoid it.

And for speeding up a fishless cycle, that would be awesome!

agabr123

i agree, i definitely recommend it for someone who, like you said, has bought fish within days of buying their tank, and i keep a bottle on hand in case anything happens, but it's definitely not an alternative to fishless cycling, considering that the success rate among members here is probably 50/50.

pinkfloydpuffer

I used Instant Ocean BioSpira to speed up the fishless cycle in my 80g high-brackish tank because it was taking so long and my puffs were getting antsy. I think it worked quite well

CWO4GUNNER

I would venture to say that all methods including my own which includes cycling with fish using detox, water changes, and most importantly low pH/Temp toxicity tables works great. But they all work only if the methods are explicitly used and followed, otherwise fish death in all these methods including fishless cycle occur before, during or immediately after "supposedly cycling" fish death can and does occur.

Safe Start is just another method scientist have discovered to give the new aquarist a simpler and much faster alternative to be able to enjoy otherwise wild fish in confinement for our enjoyment and knowledge about creation. Whether or not these methods are successful depends allot on the keepers attention to detail and their oversight which can usually be attributed to fish death.

I for one know without a doubt that with the right resources available to me I am capable of safely bringing live fish through cycle with no more stress then is experienced in everyday fish keeping, something I had to learn through study and experience but definitely not recommended for the new inexperienced aquarist.

This is where Safe Start provides an easier alternative that when followed explicitly result in no more fish death then other methods including post fishless cycled death occurrences IMHO.

tomchitown

yep , it's 50/50 with me alex .... 125g was a pain ...75g was a breeze

Dozey

I would be very interested in knowing more about your fishless cycle using TSS. What did you use for an ammonia source, how long did the cycle take? If you used pure ammonia what level did you bring the reading to?

pinkfloydpuffer

This thread follows my adventure in setting up the tank: My new 80 gallon! :D

I used the pure ammonia from Ace Hardware. I had started cycling several weeks before I decided to add biospira, at which point I finally got my nitrites going and ended up with over 80ppm nitrates, lol. I can't say I was very precise with my ammonia.... but the highest I think I brought it to was 4ppm, since the tank would only be housing three (currently) small fish.

Jonah

TSS does have its place in fish keeping, as a cure for bad advice to new fish keepers, you know that however much you advise a new keeper with fish in an uncycled tank that very few are going to keep up with daily water changes.

I have noticed that some of the chain fish stores in my area are now advising people to use it to start new tanks as well which is big advance over the let your tank stand for 24-48 hours which they always used to say.

Experienced fish keepers have little use for it except for emegencies as we can fast cycle tanks using seeded media from existing tanks

What is far more worrying is the number of established tank manufacturers like Topfin and Aquaclear etc who produce starter tropical kits with sample bottles of Cycle in the kits at least if they included TSS in the kits new keepers would stand a chance Cycle is just a problem waiting to happen.

pinkfloydpuffer

Actually, I had great use for it, but only because I was cycling my tank at 1.014SG I didn't have any media I could transfer to help the cycle.

ray_sj

I agree with Dozey to some extent. If possible, the first choice is fishless. We know it works the vast majority of the time. It just takes some patience. None of the bacterial additives (TSS, Dr. Tim's) ever worked for me.

I don't think suggesting TSS is irresponsible, but the suggestion just needs to come with a big caveat: It might not work, resulting in toxins for your fish, and daily water changes for you (possibly for weeks/months). It's not cheap, either.

Drew 43920

The most recent copy of the Foster and Smith catalog says on the cover "How to Cycle your Aquarium in 24 hours: see Page 12"

Elaine.oshea

hi i'm just wondering about cycle? I have used this and it seemed to work ok? Obviously i'm a newbie so don't attack my ignorance please!

Red1313

cycle doesn't use aquatic bacteria. That's why you need to keep redosing the tank. The bacteria live in the water and use up the ammonia (starving the real aquatic bacteria) and then die since they can't survive in the water. That's when your ammonia spikes and you have to keep redosing your tank.

Amanda

I've used to TSS to cycle all of my tanks. It's personally always worked, and it's much more convient than waiting weeks or months to cycle with ammonia.

chickadee

I use it exclusively anymore with every new tank I start and it has never failed me. I pop the bottle open and add to the tank and I immediately add the full tank of whatever fish I intend to put in the tank. The only failures I have personally heard of are where the people try to add fish a few at a time. With this particular product you need to add them ALL at one time. Otherwise you are going to have trouble.

I realize it has been a long time since I have posted here but my fish keeping has not been asleep during my absence so I think I still have enough experience to know what I speak of.

Rose