JohnSeito

I did some test for the past week or so, and I have found ammonia level to be 4ppm or more and my fish seems healthy and lively. I did 25% water changed for the past 2 week and also added stress zyme (bacteria) and the ammonia hasn't gone down. To me cycle and stress zyme doesn't work, not proven to me.

So why I keep hearing that ammonia is dangerous, and any amount is deadly to fish when it seem my fish are healthy and lively for the past 2 weeks with ammonia? However I still couldn't get it down though.

Nitrites is 0. pH is very difficult to read for me, sometime it look like it is 6.8 / 7.0 but it's hard to tell.

My question really is how can I get the ammonia down and why is ammonia in my tank high and my fish seems lively and health for 2 weeks?

I also think cloudy water is really when bacteria start kicking in, let me know if this is correct.

Steen16

What fish have you got?
Stress zyme isnt for cycling you tank, its an aid, and helps fish produce a slime coat.

Lucy

I've never experienced it, but I've read on the forum that cloudy water in a new tank could be a bacterial bloom.

What test kit are you using?
You can have ammonia in your water and not have your fish show outward symptoms.....then wham.....the damage is done internally and the physical symptoms will begin to show.

I don't have experience with Cycle but I've used Stress Zyme and I didn't see any benefit from it although others say it helped them.

Steen16

Stress Zyme is a biological filter additive containing live bacteria that improves the development of the biological filter and helps clean a dirty aquarium. But it does not cycle it for you!

sgould

Also, if your pH is lower than 7.0, ammonia starts to lose some of its toxicity.

JohnSeito

It help cycle faster right? But I have not see any results. LPS told me after I told them I have ammonia in my tank to use it to lower ammonia, but so far no result as ammonia is same level.


I use a few, I use PH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

So how can I lower the ammonia, it is been high and at same level for awhile and fish seem ok. I did water change and did a test again and I see ammonia level is the same, nitrites is 0.

JohnSeito

I don't know how the product cycle and stress zyme will work, it said that it will add bacteria to your tank. But from what I know, bacteria don't live in water, they live on surface, and they die when there is no oxygen, or ammonia for it to feed on. So with this being said, how is cycle and stress zyme claims to have bacteria?

I have added both to my tank and ammonia is the same level, didn't make a difference. I am beginning to distrust this product until it's proven and I see results.

So any advise on how I can get ammonia down? As mentioned I did 25% water change and ammonia isn't down.

sgould

The consensus on bacterial additives advertised to cycle your tank faster seems to be that they do not work.

Large (50%) and frequent (daily) water changes will help bring the ammonia levels down. It will also slow down the cycling process, but is better for the fish.

Lucy

Thanks, I didn't know that.

I'm sorry, I meant do you use a liquid test kit or the strips? The strips aren't very accurate.

Water changes will help bring the ammonia down. Do you have a nitrAte reading?

Randall

Are you using a liquid test?If not I would get one.They are more accurate.Nothing but borrowed filter media will help your tank cycle faster,IMO.If you do not know anyone with a fully cycled tank,this is not an option for you.I would go buy some Prime,or Amquel plus,and add one of these water conditioners daily.These will help make the ammonia less toxic for your fish.And do DAILY water changes of 50% until your ammonia reads 0ppm.If your ammonia is that high and you have no nitrites it sounds like the cycle is in the begining stages.Fresh water fish are not always as sensitive as we think.Being exposed to ammonia will not make them drop dead.But being exposed to it at high levels over long periods of time will shorten their life span.

JohnSeito

I used the liquid test kit, and nitrate is also 0 just as nitrite is.

Lucy

Thanks. Randall is correct then, it looks like you're in the beginning stages of the cycle process.

If you'll do a search here on the forum you can read about other members experience with Cycle.

You're better off saving your money and doing water changes to help protect your fish from the effects of ammonia until the cycle is done.
0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes with some nitrAtes showing.

JohnSeito

How long is the first, second, third stage usually takes? I read that it takes 5/7 days but it looks like mine is taking more than 2weeks for first.

and it's funny that the cycle and stress zyme didn't work for me.

Randall

There really is no set time for each stage of the cycle.The whole cycle can take as little as 3 weeks or as many as 8 or more weeks.It usually takes less time if you do a fishless cycle.And because you are not,I would guess it will take at least 6 weeks,if not more.Doing all of the water changes to keep your fish healthy,and alive,can slow down the bacteria growth.However,the bacteria that "eat" the nitrite always seem to take longer to colonize,therefore this part of the cycle takes the longest.I would guess you should see some nitrite reading sometime this week.Like ammonia,you will see a nitrite spike,then it will drop to 0ppm.Be patient,and do daily water changes to keep your wet pets alive.As I mentioned ealier,Prime or Amquel plus added daily will help keep your fish healthy during the cycle.

Lucy

From what I understand, Cycle contains the wrong kind of bacteria. It's not self sustaining like the bacteria that naturally grows during the cycling process.

The cycle can take as long as a month to complete.
When you're cycling with fish, it takes longer because you should be doing water changes to keep the ammonia levels down for the health of your fish, however, the bacteria needs the ammonia to grow, so it's a double edged sword.

Good luck

pamd

Lucy's right, as usual. I've also read that Cycle can be detrimental, creating a series of mini-cycles so the aquarist has to keep adding and adding it, on and on ...

John, since you seem so concerned (good for you!) you could probably speed up the cycle with Tetra Safe Start. Quite a few users reported fairly glowing success stories a few months back when it first became available in the U.S., but I haven't kept up with it, don't know if there have been negatives, and haven't tried it myself. It would generally be added at the same time as the fish, but I don't think adding it later would do harm. It's supposedly made up of the "real" beneficial bacteria.

I did use its predecessor, Bio-Spira, which had a very good reputation, but mine did not work as expected. Since that product had to be refrigerated constantly before use, I suspect it wasn't handled properly somewhere along the way. Safe Start does not require refrigeration.

From first-hand experience, I think the best way to cycle a tank quickly, as Randall mentioned, is to get some filter media from a fully cycled tank. Mine fully cycled in one week, practically like magic, thanks to Martinismommy's betta Will. But you'd have to be lucky enough to know someone with a tank and fish you trust to be completely healthy. Obviously, that precludes the stores.

Good luck!

JohnSeito

You know what is really funny. One of my friend who has been keeping fish for quite sometimes doesn't know about the nitrogen cycle. He does water changes like once a month and he don't just do partial water change, he change the whole thing. He has been doing this for over a year, and his fish looks healthy, active and well. What he does really beats the theory about fish cycling. He doesn't know about ammonia or cares about it, he doesn't do testing or anything like that.

He doesn't even have any gravel in his tank either but his fish has been healthy and well for over a year.

I was thinking that if he changes the whole water every time than wouldn’t that mean he is starting the cycle over every time and his fish would always be exposed to ammonia and there will not be the good bacteria in his tank. So how is his fish always healthy and active for a whole year? He had his fish when it was about 3 inch and now it is 9 inches and he been doing his monthly whole water change like that when the fish was 3 inches.

And in my case with the ammonia in my tank and if I am doing water changes to lower it, and eventually doing water changes to get it down to 0 then wouldn’t that also prevent the bacteria from growing? I just did a 75% water change yesterday and got the ammonia to level 1ppm. I am doing more water change.

So my question is this, cause I can't do water change so frequent forever, and if I decided to stop wouldn't the ammonia be back up and still no bacteria and my tank will not cycle?

And if anyone could shed some light on my friends case. The theory about cycling doesn't seem to affect his fish at all. Also when he changes the water all of it monthly he also changes the media, and he has no gravel. He don't even put water condition, only does when he feels like it. His fish is been healthy for over a year.

Lucy

I understand your questioning this, and really, it's a good to look at different ways of doing things.

Your friend's tank, it did cycle, he just didn't know it because it's a fact that when ammonia is present bacteria called nitrosomonas start to develop, that's when you have nitrites then bacteria called nitrobacter will develop and they will convert the nitrites into nitrates.
His tank is healthy now because he changes his water and that the nitrAtes down.
Gravel isn't necessary for all fish, several members have bare bottom tanks.

The beneficial bacteria grows on the surfaces of the plants, and more so on the filter media. Not much in the water, so even if you did a 100% water change it shouldn't effect the bacteria.

I'm guessing he only changes out of filter cartridge not all off the filter media. Which is fine and as long as there's a good bed of bacteria on the bio wheel or sponge, he'd be ok.

As far as not using conditioner, it depends on the source of water. I know mine has chlorine and heavy metals, so I have to use a conditioner. In your friend's case, he might be blessed with good water.

And, yes, doing water changes does bring the ammonia down which can inhibit bacterial growth, but we do this for the health of our fish. That's why cycling with fish can take longer.

Of course, how you cycle and maintain your tank is entirely up to you, which ever way you choose, good luck.


I hope that made sense.

Edit: One more thing to consider:

Your test could be picking up ammonium (due to your low PH), which is not toxic to your fish, rather than ammonia

pamd

Hmmmm ... interesting. But that's kind of the old-fashioned way of keeping fish. I had freshwater aquariums years ago, and back then, the common practice (at least where I lived) was to do pretty much what your friend does, except a full change only every few months. That was a high-maintenance task, believe me. Your friend's setup is easier because he doesn't have substrate.

At least my fish got to spend probably about half their time in a cycled community tank, but they were subjected to a lot of cycling. Mine actually did fine for the most part, but I only had hardy species. I did lose too many fish to ICH, and looking back on it, I think the primary reason was that their resistance was down because of the ammonia and nitrites.

What kind of fish does your friend have? It sounds like one big fish, but I can't tell from your post if he has several species.

Congratulations on reducing the ammonia! You'll see the nitrites very soon if you haven't already. When you see this, you'll know the cycle is going along normally. Reduction in ammonia means the nitrites are being "fed," which will in turn "feed" the much less harmful nitrates. When this is happening, your beneficial bacteria are hard at work and no, you're not losing them. It's slightly gradual: It's not like the ammonia goes to 0 and then bam, nitrites. I think you could reduce your daily water changes to 25% at this point, but this is just my opinion and meant to be tossed around by others who I hope chime in. As Lucy said, it's good to look at different ways of doing things.

No, you won't have to do water changes so frequently forever. Cycling is primarily for the health of the fish, but once your tank is cycled, it's for you, too! I only do on average 25% water changes every couple of weeks. Easy! I test the water about once a week and when the nitrates get over 15 PPM, I do the 25% change. Others recommend weekly water changes no matter what. I can't say if my way or their way is better. I'm just lazy!

I'll betcha Lucy's guess is right. Your friend is probably saving some filter media and possibly decorations and plants. Otherwise, unless his fish are particularly hardy species, they'd probably be pretty sad.

JohnSeito

I hate that disease, though I hear of it many times but I have not see it and I would think it would be hard to see too. And to medicate it would kill the bacteria, not sure if I am correct on this. Kinda risky if this is the case.


He only have one fish, it's a flowerhorn in his tank. He put him in a smaller tank also and his fish is very active. The fish would follow where ever my hand goes when I tap the tank and does it very quickly. He told me he don't use gravel because it makes the tank dirty very quickly. His tank is completely empty, has no gravel or plant, he only have air pump, filter, and heater and when he changed the water he put warm water, not cold not hot. and he changed the media when he does his whole water change.


I did another 75% water change yesterday and got the ammonia to .25ppm. And so far I still have no nitrite. And I don't even know if the bacteria is in the tank or if there is enough. I feel that at this point I am gambling between water change, bacteria being in the tank, and water chemistry which is one of my and I am sure all people with fish concern when doing water change. Today I don't plan to do any water change, maybe tomorrow. And the way I have seen it at this point is that the ammonia is not lesser by bacteria but by me flushing it out.

With regards to water changes. Sometimes I think it is conflicting. It can be good cause you are providing good, clean water quality for your fish but then again it can be bad because you are ruining the water chemistry and more work if you are doing frequent etc. Also when the cycling is in progress, good that you are eliminating the ammonia, nitrites, and make the water quality good for your fish but then again you are disturbing the water chemistry, reducing and possibly kill the bacteria(tap water can kill bacteria from what I know), prolong bacteria growth and the cycling process, and stress the fish a little for that few hours until they get use to the water again. This is how I see it.

Lucy

Tap water kills your bacteria if you're not using a dechlorinator.

I agree, water changes prolong the cycle because you're removing some of the ammonia the beneficial bacteria needs to develop, however, you're doing this for the sake of the fish's health.

Getting clean fresh water doesn't have to be stressful to your fish.