Eskielvr

I woke up this morning and 2 more Neons are dead. I don't know what to do. I treated them with ParaGuard last night. A few had just a couple itty bitty white fluffy something on them. Not sure if it's ICH or velvet. Again they all seemed fine last night. I can't get anyone to answer me under the Neon or Disease section and I'm really getting frustrated because I don't know what to do. I guess I'll go ahead and give them another treatment of ParaGuard. I may go and do a water change first.

Other than that my only other options are just wait until they all die I guess. I'll probably go ahead and order the bottle of "euthanize" while I'm at it. I just don't know what else to do.

Terry

Hi. There are better experts on here than me so hopefully you'll get other responses. I wasn't familiar with Paraguard so I had to look it up:

"Seachem ParaGuard is a fish and filter safe parasite control product. Unlike highly toxic and difficult to use formalin based medication, ParaGuard contains no formaldehyde or methanol and will not alter pH. ParaGuard employs malachite green, and fish protective polymers that effectively and efficiently eradicate ich and other external parasites or fungal/bacterial/viral wounds. Great for quarantine tanks or whenever new fish are introduced. Can be used in both marine and freshwater aquariums."

It's difficult to tell from your description what the disease is but the "itty bitty" white spots seem to indicate ich. Were there any directions on the Paraguard regarding a reduced dosage for tetras? I have some medication that has the malachite green and formalin in it, and it says to use half the normal dose with tetras, but I'm not sure if that's because of the malachite green or the formalin.

If it is ich, it often develops when the temperature is too low. Have you got a heated aquarium? It's often recommended to also raise the temperature to help in getting rid of ich.

Sorry about losing the fish. I have neons too and unbelievably the ones I have now have survived ich outbreaks, diseases and other problems that have wiped out my other fish. And I always considered them very sensitive fish. They might be, but not the 7 that I have.

Hopefully someone else has some ideas.

Eskielvr

Ok, thanks. I was wondering if ParaGuard worked on Ich.......it says bacterial/fungal, etc but I don't know which diseases are bacterial, which are fungal, and which are parasites. (I was told Ich was an external parasite.)

I also have a medication called Nox-Ich....and it says it does Ich and Velvet. I wasn't sure if I should be using that instead or not. That one says to reduce the amount for tetras and scaleless fish like my Corys and Otos, but the other one also has the green stuff in it and it doesn't say to reduce it for them.

I'm wondering if the ParaGuard I'm using will be just fine or should I try a different medication? The problem is, if I need a different medication I'll have to run my filter with carbon in it for 48 hours to get rid of the ParaGuard, won't I? I don't think I can use both medications together. By the time I filter for 48 hours they may not make it that long, so I guess I'll have to just keep using the ParaGuard.

It's a 20 gallon tank, and I took 5 gallons out of my tank this morning, and stirred up the gravel to try and get all the junk out, (my Python broke on me this morning, arrrggggg). Then I added 6 1/2 gallons back, put in some stress coat (because I always do at water changes) and then another treatment of ParaGuard.

P.S. I forgot to mention that yes, my aquarium is heated. The temp has always stayed in the mid 70s, I had it set to 77 on the heater and then I yesterday I raised it to 80 or 81. It's showing on the thermometer as being 78 or 79 though.

Terry

Hi again. The Paraguard does mention eradicating ich so if that's what they have then maybe just stay with it? Yep - ich is an external parasite and is probably found in most tanks, if not all. The fish are most prone to have the parasites attach when they're stressed from cold, transport, etc. I believe the medications really kill the free swimming forms of ich, which are released from the ones that reach maturity that are attached to the fish. The trick appears to be killing these free swimming parasite before they can attach back to the fish and start the life cycle all over again, with even more attached than the first time. Here's a pretty good website on ich and it's life cycle:

http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2421

Raising your temperature was a good idea. Mid 70's may be a little bit cool, and may have LED to the fish's immunity systems being lowered & open to attack by the ich. I've seen some recommendations to get the temperature up into the low to mid 80s for a couple days while treating for ich, but you want to be sure not to cook the little guys! Hopefully you still have a chance to save the remaining fish, but don't give up on the hobby if it's too late. It can get pretty discouraging at times fighting diseases & other problems. I think we've all had similar things happen to us.

By the way, whats' a Python - a water siphon, filter or ?

Eskielvr

Ok, thank you so much for your response. I'm looking over my catalog of different fish medications trying to figure out if I should be using something else instead. I'll should probably go ahead and stick with the ParaGuard then? In the meantime, should I order any kind of back up medication?

A Python is a gravel cleaner that you can also use to refill your tank water. It really saves a lot of time and labor cleaning tanks and cuts down cleaning time by at least half, if not longer. Here's what it looks like http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...1&N=2004&Nty=1

Terry

Hi. I think you replied as soon as I posted! I'm on my lunch hour at work so I can "play" on the internet easier during that time. I'm not sure what to tell you on the medication, or if you need a different one. I've sometimes had success with one, and the next time it doesn't work. I guess just following the directions, and hoping that you treated it in time, is about all we can do at times. I win some and I lose some. Timing is sometimes the most important thing. I've taken to being close to obsessive/compulsive lately in closely checking every fish I have for signs of any disease, and testing water quality. Like you, I hate to lose fish too.

Ok on the Python. I was guessing it was probably a siphon/gravel vac type of thing. After looking at the web site you sent I recognized seeing it before. I have no sink close to any of my tanks. Question - what happens with the water that's inside the 25 or 50 feet of hose? I assume it has a shutoff valve to keep it from all draining out onto the floor when you're done. I just use one of those jobs that you move back & forth in the tank till it starts siphoning. I've also considered a battery powered gravel vac by Ehiem, that lets you clean the gravel without having to do a water change at the same time, but even at an online price of about $70 it's a little too steep for my wallet. Maybe some day.

Eskielvr

What I do with mine is when I'm done siphoning, I "walk" the hose so that it siphons back in the sink. (You can get longer hoses for it up to 100 feet, or do like we did and attach a regular garden hose to it to make it longer........my tanks aren't that close to my sinks either.) Same thing when I'm done filling. I'll turn it back to siphon and walk the hose (starting from the end nearest the tank and holding the hose over my head, and just walk down the hose until I reach the sink and see all the water get siphoned out)

For the ParaGuard, I forgot I hadn't been shutting my lights off during treatment. So I called and asked their tech support person (who didn't seem very friendly) and she said my lights didn't need to be off. But, I think I'm still about to lose yet another Neon. His head was lowered and his tail was above his head. I'm afraid he's starting to assume the vertical position too.

I asked if I could double the dosage I'm giving, but she said to wait 24 hours between doses. I guess I'm probably going to end up having to euthanize yet another fish. Are all Neons this hard to keep? I'm already done to 7 now and if I have to euthanize this guy I'll be back with the original amount I started with. I just don't know what else to do.

Terry

Ok on the Python hose. I think I'll stick with my siphon that I have. My wife is already on my back about all the aquarium stuff I have around and having a hose stretched halfway across the house wouldn't go over to well. The only other question I thought of was if you are refilling with chlorinated tap water do you add dechlor to the tank to make up for it. Doesn't look like there's any way to add the dechlor to the incoming return water before it gets to the tank?

I'm gathering that you just added new neons to the tank recently? I think you said you got no response to posts in another section or sections? If that's the case it may be the new ones that got stressed during transport from the pet shop? Is it possible to tell if it's the new or old ones dying? Unless the ich came in with the new ones? Trying to figure it out. In answer to your question on neons being hard to keep.....years ago I would have said yes, they always seemed hard to keep alive when I was in this hobby years ago. I may have mentioned earlier that the ones I have now have been though just about everything a poor fish can go through and survived while all of my other fish died. The ones in my tank at home are well over a year old and have lived through an ammonia level that went beyond the measurment capabilities of my test kit, through an episode with a heater that wouldn't shut off and the water temp. got into the mid 90s, through a major (and very quick) ich attack that killed my zebras, platys and even my old cory that survived a lot of things in the past. So are they hard to keep - yes and no - how's that for an answer?

Eskielvr

I just roll my Python up and hang it up when I'm done, the hose is only stretched out during the course of the water change. It's much easier than trying to pump and pump and pump to get the other gravel cleaners to suction. I had one years ago and hated it. I had such a hard time to get it to work. It's supposed to take out some of the cholorine as it fills, but I just add de-chlor to it anyway when I'm done. Never had a problem with it.

The first batch of Neons was fine. Then I added the second batch and the betta chased them. Next morning one was dead, followed by another that afternoon. I took out the Betta and they're still dying. Water perimeters have been fine.

I'm really confused now. I called my fish store back and they're not familiar with the meds I'm using. She said it could be a shock when I do water changes because the water temperature is cold. I told her I warm up the water I replace to at or slightly below the current temp, and she said not to use warm water because warm water has minerals in it? Soooo.......does what happens to it when it gets heated with a heater then?

She told me 3 different types of medication I could try. Forgive me I have no idea how to spell these so I'll try as hard as I can. Neomycin, Agentisen(?) and Erythromyisn Like I'm going to know where to find those! I can't even spell them! (Ok, I figured out how to spell 2 of them.......how do I know which ones to choose??)

I think I'm going to order my bottle of Euthanize now.

Terry

Well, I have no idea why warm water would have more minerals than cold water? I don't think water heaters put minerals in water? That one has me stumped, or they don't know what they're talking about & just giving you a line of BS. I don't know what the inside of a water heater looks like but I'd guess it might put a bit of copper in the water from the piping, if anything at all, but copper is a metal not a mineral. I always use warm water & try to get it as close to tank temperature as I can & I have no problems.

As far as the meds she recommended they appear to all be antibiotics and these aren't typically used to treat parasites. These are usually for things like fin & tail rot. Unless she thinks it's a bacterial infection - maybe they had it wipe out the tank of neons in the shop & identified it as such? I've been going on the assumption that you're dealing with ich, but maybe that's incorrect. I don't think the antibiotic would hurt. No idea what "Agentisen" could be, but I found some info. on the other two:

Neomycin:

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=11043

Erythromycin:

http://www.bullwrinkle.com/ShoppingP...ythromycin.htm

There are other antibiotics out there that would probably work as well. I've been treating a platy at home with what I think may be velvet. I tried antifungal & antiparasite meds and they did nothing. Then I threw in some Tetracycline I had and that seems to be helping. If it isn't really ich maybe try an antiobiotic?

I'm really sorry in assuming it was ich if it's not. It sounded like it , but it's kinda difficult to do a diagnosis in this manner & I'm certainly not a fish vet!

Eskielvr

No problem. I was thinking it was Ich, too but I really have no idea. That's why I was using the ParaGuard, since it's a broad spectrum, something...

I've been on the phone with so many different fish techs and store personal and I'm almost on a first name basis with them! I haven't been very successful finding info about Velvet, but I'm wondering if that might be it? I don't know if ParaGuard treats that or not, but my other medication claims to.

Right now they're sitting on the dark. I turned the light off just in case it was affecting the medication. I guess for my situation all I can really do now is just wait to see if they die or not.

I forgot to answer your earlier question about other posts. You're the only one who's responded so far. I think I originally posted yesterday sometime.

Oh yeah I almost forgot. The lady who told me about warm water having more minerals than cold, said I should set my new water out for an hour to get to room temperature before adding it. I couldn't use my Python then (if it wasn't broke) and if I use my bucket it'd take me 5 hours to change the water if I do a 25%! I only have a 1 gallon bucket, no way! I just don't buy her "don't use warm water" theory. That just doesn't make any sense.

Terry

Maybe somebody will jump in here & comment on the pet shop saying that warm water has more minerals and isn't good for the fish. And what good would shutting the water heater off for a while do? Makes no sense at all to me, but I could be wrong. I don't think I'll start using cold water & heating it on the range to the right temperature! Maybe the microwave would be better so as to not get any bad substances from a metal pot. To me that shop's recommendation is ridiculous.

I'm not real familiar with velvet, but I think it may be what the platy in my hospital tank has. In my case it's a thing that almost looks like a light colored coating covering a good part of the red platy's side and the fin on that side has been mostly eaten away. I originally thought it was fungus, but the antfungal med did nothing, nor did the antiparasite med. But the antibiotic seems to be getting rid of it. Hard to tell because it hasn't disappeared yet. If the neons were mine I'd go ahead & treat with antibiotic. I'm guessing only that you could treat with both meds - the anti-ich and an antibiotic at the same time. I had 3 meds in the tank with the platy & he didn't seem affected. In fact, the velvet or whatever it is never did seem to have the fish acting sick - it's still active & eats well. I just didn't want to take a chance with it spreading to my other fish.

Was it a pet shop recommendation, or something in the med directions, to keep the fish in the dark? I'd never heard of that before, but there may be a good reason for it.

Good luck. Let me know what happens.

Anyone else out there reading this that can give an opinion on some of these things?

Eskielvr

That's odd, I sent a reply, or so I thought.

Anyway I thought they might have neon tetra Disease but not sure. If they do it said it's not curable and said to destroy your fish. I'm not going to do that though since I'm not sure if that's what they have.

I called Drs Foster and Smith and asked about using the antibiotic Neomycin in conjunction with the ParaGuard, and she spoke to a supervisor who said that's not a good idea and said if I wanted to use the Neomycin I should wait 2 weeks (that seems like a long time.....someone else told me 48 hours with carbon in the tank) in between treatments. I told her unfortunately they'd all probably be dead if I waited that long and thanked her for her advice.

If someone else out there might be able to help would you please respond?? Terry I thank you so much for all your help thus far. It seems like you're the only one who cares. Again thank you so much!

Terry

I think I was replying to your reply. You're welcome but no need to thank me. I was hoping someone else would comment on some the comments about using water heater water, etc. etc. Even opinions are always welcome. I've heard of the neon disease but no idea what it is. If nothing else send a reply in a day or two & let me know what's happened with your neons.

Eskielvr

I wasn't going to reply until morning, but I found my Bumble Bee shrimp dead, for real this time. Earlier in the afternoon I saw it on the rocks and the head region was all red. I found it in the exact same spot just now, dead. I don't know what caused it and I'm really, really disappointed. I think I'm more upset about losing the shrimp than I am the neons.

I put my filter cartridge back in for an hour in a desperate attempt to remove the ParaGuard and use my Nox-Ich instead, and after an hour and a half or so, I added the Nox-Ich. I know it's risky, but what do I have to loose except more fish, which I'm already losing anyway? I sure hope this helps. I counted all 7 but 2 are off to themselves. I don't know what I'll find in the morning.

Terry

Hi. Sorry about the shrimp. I know nothing at all about shrimp, but it may very well be that the meds for the neons and other fish may be toxic to invertebrates like the shrimp.

I just did a search using google, on "Paraguard and shrimp", and it does appear that some people that have used Paraguard have had it kill their shrimp. Here's a link to the websites that came up with the search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ard+and+shrimp

I tried African dwarf frogs not too long ago (on sale at a buck apiece) and they didn't last long. I wasn't sure but I think they may have died when I treated the tank with an ich med. Or, the poor things starved to death because I had no source of the live food they really need (I knew better but my wife thought they were cute). In any case, keeping non-fish animals in a tank with fish can lead to problems in treating the fish in the same tank as the invertebrates.

Eskielvr

My other shrimp, the Cherry Red, is fine though. Unless whatever is wrong with the fish transferred to him?

Anyway, I treated with Nox-Ich last night and I still have all 7 Neons this morning. I'm tempted to put some more in but I should probably wait the whole 24 hours first. On one of the Neons I do see a white dot now on his side next to his anal fin. There could be something more on the inside since it almost looks like it has eggs or something. (Not quite to that extent, but he's just a little bit swollen and I can see more whiteish looking stuff inside) But, a dot is confirmed.

Nox-Ich said to treat for 3 consecutive days. I hope by that time it'll be gone. If not, then what do I treat it with?

Terry

Hi. Is the 7 neons the number you had originally before adding the new ones? I think so. Glad you still have the one shrimp. I'd follow the directions on the Nox-Ich since that white dot on the fin of that neon bothers me. I just hope it doesn't affect the shrimp. Just my opinions - I'd hate to recommend anything that's isn't the correct thing to do. Not sure what to treat with if that doesn't work. I've had the ich problems and haven't always been successful in saving the fish. You don't have a quaratine tank you could put that one neon in do you? Or if you could keep the ship in a Q tank while treating the neons that might be better. But then both tanks might still need to be treated.

I'm a bit surprised no one else has offered any opinions on this & some other posts I've seen. It's a bit discouraging to me that there are so many "experts" around with so little to say.

Eskielvr

Yeah, it is discouraging, esp with all the hardships I've been having. It seems like the all the other posts are being answered except mine.

Anyway, no I don't have a hospital or isolation tank. I'll be getting a 5 gallon one from my sis in law, but my Betta will be going in there.

Terry

Hi. I went searching and there are at least a few other forums similar to this one. One of the two others (and the best of the two) I just signed up for can be found with this link:

http://www.fishforums.net

You'll have to register but it's also free. They even have a forum devoted to Tropical Fish Emergencies which might get you more than the one opinion you've been able to get from one person here (me). It looks like all of the day old posts in this one have been replied to at least once if not more. It's worth a try. It seems like hit & miss on getting a reply here, unless you post an opinion here that someone doesn't agree with - then you'll get people coming out of the woodwork!

Terry

By the way, in addition to the other post I just put in, I just went & searched on neon tetra disease & it doesn't sound like that's what your neons have:

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...eondisease.htm

So much for the incorrect comment by that one pet shop.

Using Google.com to search for a lot of this stuff can be more valuable (and quicker) than getting reponses in a forum. I'm not sure if you use Google or some other search site already, but if not try it. I just went to google on this one and typed in "neon tetra disease" and the search found a lot of sites with information.

Eskielvr

Ok, thanks. I'll look into those sites. Maybe people just don't like to respond to me? I have a hard time getting responses on my other forum too, except like you said, when something gets stirred up or I say the wrong thing.

Yes I've been using google a lot, as well as been on the phones with the Foster and Smith fish techs and technical support people. I'm so tired of being on the phone! I'm going to make one more call to the fish store where I bought my Ich medication and ask if there's a shelf life to it. I've had it since 2000 I believe. The one Neon definatly has some white spots to it now.

Well, so much for that. He just died now. I saw him swimming in circles upside down and before I could get to him he was already dead stuck in the filter. Now I'm left with 6, which was what I started out with. I've now lost 7 Neons and 1 Bumble Bee shrimp.....about $20 worth. Everytime I try to maintain an aquarium and do what you're supposed to do, water changes, etc, I can't keep fish. But when I neglect my tanks they thrive. Go figure.

Terry

Hi. Anything new on the neons or the other shrimp? Gimme some good news!

Eskielvr

Well, I didn't loose any today, but a couple of them have white spots now, too so I don't know. Today was the last day I'm supposed to use the Nox-Ich so I don't know what to do. I had to turn my lights back on because my Swords were starting to twist and one of my Anubias Nana's was starting to turn yellow. My last shrimp survived the dosages though

I'm think, tomorrow I may do a water change and put the carbon filter media back in and let it run for a while. I'm kind of at a loss as to what I should do after that though.

schiz

I am by far not an expert, but I have had some experience with fighting Ich, if indeed that is what is wrong with the neons. My mollies, who seem to be my most sensitive water condition fish, are always getting ich about once every two months. I use a product called Quickcure which is suppose to cure ich in two days although the fastest I have seen it work is about 4-5 days. I am not sure if others on here will recommend it but it is cheap, about $2.50 and generally easy to find. I always remove any sick fish from my main tank, although most people do treat ich and usually only ich in their main tanks. I do not because I have ghost shrimp and most medications with copper will kill invertebrates. I have a 5g bucket that I use as a quarantine tank. I just drop my heater in there and do manual water changes while I am treating if it is a short period of time. Saves me the trouble of removing carbon and all from my filters. It also seems that since I have been keeping my temp at 80 I have had less trouble with ich. I work at night so I have not run across this thread before now, but maybe by keeping it recent someone who knows more will drop in. I hope your neons respond to treatment and become their perky selves. I myself have no luck with them, or anything from the tetra group. The three I have now are doing well but I will not be getting any more since its obvious a tetra keeper I am not. Rest of my fish have survived all my mistakes and are thriving.

On an unrelated note is that an American Eskimo Spitz in the pic to the left? It looks just like one I used to have, goodness I miss that dog.

katy68did

Hello and I'm sorry to hear about your fish and shrimp.I am a newbie when it comes to neons but I had problems with mine too.I bought 4 originally then added 2 more.I am now down to three.I noticed ich on 2 of them and treated my tank and did a partial water change but still lost 3 of them.My husband suggested(and it seems to have helped)filling large jugs with water and adding the start right or which ever brand you use and let the water sit for a few days before adding it to your tank.Since I have started doing this I have had no disease in my tanks at all and no out of sight level changes either.Hope things get better for you.

kalika

Hi there. I have been reading all of your postings and I too have had trouble in the past with ich/stores giving bad advice. I'm not sure what to do about yur neons but I can tell you that the difference between water being heated or not is the heated water naturally will dechlorinate itself as it ages. Or I should say, heat helps it do that faster if yu were to use aged water for partial water changes. What the person was probably thinking about when saying warm water has more minerals in it could be that hot water as it runs through your pipes and can pick up more minerals/metals than cold water will. I believe this is very old advice but then the age of your pipes could be part of it. Older homes (ancient) used to have lead pipes and so in the '70's when the CDC or whomever figured out that lead was in our water and was being drunk by people, it was toxic and over time could make someone very sick. It's the same lead that is in paint that was used or purchased before 1976. WHy pediatricians still test our small ones at the age of 18 months to 2 years for lead blood poisioning. Most pipes now-a-days are made of copper and other problem free materials. THe heat of your water isn't the problem. You may want to see what your pipes are made of but my guess is you are just fine and if your fish have been fine up until now, I mean, they have lived a decent time like 3-6 months at least, that isn't it. You could also call your local water company to see if they have changed their ways of treating the water but again, this has nothing to do with heating the water either before or after it is in the tank. I hope I helped a little in this regard. At least makes it so you have one less thing to worry about. Good Luck!!!

Eskielvr

Hi. Yes, that's an American Eskimo Dog. A Spitz is actually referring to any type of dog that has pointed ears, a wedge shaped muzzle, a tail that curls over the back and a double coat. So, Poms, Keeshonds, Sammies, Akitas, etc are all Spitz, too. It's just a classification such as Hounds, & Terriers. I also have a Shetland Sheepdog (Sheltie). Both are great breeds, but I'm definately fond of Eskies


I didn't post yesterday because we went to my sis in laws to pick up that 5 gallon aquarium for my Betta. But, before we left I had to euthanize yet another Neon. That left me with 5 but I could only find 4, but then last night I saw the 5th one. However this morning I only counted 4 again so I don't know where he's hiding. The one that had to be euthanized was another one with white spots on it. So far the rest seem to be doing good though.

My nitrate test came yesterday and I tested it and it was either 20 PPM or 40 ppm, it's really hard for me to tell. If I held it against one light it looked like 40 ppm but when I held it against a different light it looked like 20.....so I'm not sure. I'll need to run to Petsmart to get new connectors for my Python since it broke. The last time I tried to change it without the Python I stirred up the gravel, but still didn't get much of the debris.

On a different note, I set up the 5 gallon aquarium and it's running. How long will it take to cycle with the Stress Zyme? Also, the filter that came with it is some kind of Tetra filter, that looks like a mini Whisper filter. But when I put the filter cartridge in it didn't have the foam that I believe it's supposed to have like the Whisper one does. I wonder if I can get the foam pad at Petsmart? It's basically just to give the beneficial bacteria some place to grow on. Right now all they'll have is gravel.

Oh, I also tried to use that Garlic Xtreme stuff made by Kent. It says to soak 1 teaspoon of food in 2 drops of the garlic stuff, but that's way too much food and causes the flakes to sink. It says you can add it directly to the aquarium water though, which is what I've been doing instead. I don't know if this stuff works or not but it sure does stink! I put the jar back inside the plastic container it came in, and then dropped that into a plastic zip lock bag and I can still smell it. Maybe I'm just smelling the drops I put in the aquarium? Either way it stinks!! lol

Terry

Hi. Sorry that the neon situation continues. Hopefully the ich attack will subside soon. No idea on the cycle time with the StessZyme. I've used it too but don't recall how long it took. I wish I could find Marineland BioSpira near me. I think there's one shop in Charlotte that has it but it's not close. Try some StressZyme in the tank with the nitrites - worth a try even in established aquaria. Not familiar at all with the Whisper filter types or the stink garlic med! Phew! Hope it works! Just pretend you're in an Italian restaurant.

Terry

I was interested in the freshwater shrimp and found this:

3. ICH TREATMENTS AND COPPER USUALLY AFFECT YOUR SHRIMP! Shrimp, inverts and most scale-less fish are sensitive to most Ich medicatons and other chemicals containing copper. (Read on) Amano shrimp and Tiger shrimp can sometimes handle Ich treatments when used in 1/2 dosages, the tough will usually survive, the weak ones will expire. The tough ones will molt shortly thereafter, so you won't want to treat again too soon. A better idea, buy a small hospital tank for your sick fish. (i.e. Eclipse makes great, inexpensive, and complete 2 and 3 gallon tanks) Check for additives like methylene blue, and malachite green that you put into your aquarium (usually ich meds), that goes for ingredients in your food too, check the ingredients label on your fish food, if Copper is near the top of the ingredients list, it is usually going to harm your shrimp and shorten their life! Copper is usually introduced from your tap water's HOT side, never use it, instead, if using tap water, use the COLD side only. We are testing a product that WILL be safe for scale-less fish and inverts, that we will be offering here soon as soon as our testing is complete.

I remember you lost one - this may be the reason? It also mentions using the water heater water - maybe that's what the LFS was talking about?

http://www.azgardens.com/shrimpfactory.php