saulat

I had some aquatic frogs and tetras in the past. I just set up my 10 gallon with two african cichlids. I may get a 55 gallon but not sure I have room. I am going to look at a hex 32 gallon tonight. I dont know the measurement yet. How many fish could I have in the 32 and as an example maybe guppies and tetras and a dwarf plecostomis? How about Cichlids? I read about a spray bar to create surface aeration, where could I get one of these? I want some fish with personality maybe some different levels of fish, anyone have a link for a good coomunity of fish for me? Color and personality are good. I may take the cichlids back since they dont play well, although probably wait till the tank is cycled.

matt6765

cichlids are aggresive... they may attack your guppies

saulat

I was thinking Id take the cichlids back so I can have some more variety, although guppies I am not sure are what I want.

Forgot to mention my water was white cloudy overnight. I picked up Aqueon ammonia neutralizer. Is this safe to use? Probably just do water changes since right now its a small new tank.

matt6765

did you put in to much water condishiner in. When I started I put to much in and my tank got cloudy. Guppies are peaceful. you can put neons, mollies, cories,silver dollars and many other with them

saulat

Well I just set up my 30 gallon It is a hex and I haven't measured the dimensions yet. I am using the filter I had which probably isn't adequate. The filter that came with it the motor is running but its not pumping water for some reason.

That is possible although I don't think so. There was a strong smell which I think would be the ammonia. I am using some stuff that I used a year or more ago, maybe that affected it.

I am not sure how to decorate the upper area of the tank for upper level fish unless I fill most of the tank with rocks and things. I would really like several levels of fish in the aquarium although I am happy for now. I guess I'll let it cycle for a few weeks and maybe pick up some danios in place of the cichlids for now. I'll try to post a picture and tank dimensions at some point.

Angela_96

If you still have the africans, they require a 4 foot long tank with a big foot print. They do not thrive in tall tanks as they are bottom dwellers. African cichlids in the most part sold in mixed cichlid tanks are malawi mbuna. They should be kept in a specie only tank with a high pH and hard water. No other fish besides them.
Btw they won't just attack guppies, they will eat them.

Heres a link for sitting up a tank:
http://www.fishlore.com/BeginnersGuides.htm

For info on cichlids:
For cichlid newbies:How to set up cichlid tanks

I would say that your tank is not properly cycled, it takes from 2 weeks to a month.

saulat

Well I am planning on taking them back. I may try to keep them for a month or so until the tank is cycled. They are still babies so I am guessing they will do ok until they get bigger. The person at the pet shop suggested stacking a lot of rocks and they would do well with plenty of places to hide. Unfortunately it does not seem like I have much space for decoration. I am hoping that with 2 small fish if I continue to do water changes they will survive the cycling process. I am picking up a water test kit today.

Angela_96

When you cycle a tank with a fish in it the fish suffers concequences that last the fish's whole life. The ammonia and nitrite will lower their immune systems, stunt growth, keep their coloration from being what it should be, etc. I would suggest taking them back asap and using the fishless cycling method. At 3/4 inch size I have mbuna fry that have killed other fry in the tank, they are super aggressive even at baby age so not having the room to get away can also cause them to kill each other. Malawi mbuna require a 55g tank at smallest.

saulat

To be perfectly honest I want the instant gratification of having something in my tank even if I am inhumane. I picked something up to lower ammonia levels, a test kit, and got a used filter to speed cycling I hope. Hopefully theyll manage with that and water changes.Maybe I will take them back tomorrow and decide on the fish I plan on keeping.

Angela_96

To be honest if you want "instant gratification" pet keeping in general is not for you. Making a harsh enviroment for fish will kill them in the long run. Fish keeping is a hobby that takes patience.

Lucy

Welcome to Fish Lore
Used filter media is a great way to jump start a cycle.
Be careful of products that claim to lower or eliminate the ammonia. They can also starve the bacteria by getting rid of the ammonia.
Now that you have your test kit, have you taken any readings?

Unfortunatly the presence of ammonia in the water can burn the fish's gills as well as lower their immune system. It can cause internal bleeding, damage the lungs, brain and tissue.
Nitrites can also cause nitrite poisoning aka brown blood disease. It stops the blood from being able to carry oxygen putting them at risk of suffocation even if theres enough oxygen in the water.

IMO, none of this is worth my wanting fish right away.
I hope you'll be doing daily water changes to try and keep these risks as low as possible.
If you don't care that's inhumane, maybe you should reconsider having a pet.

Good luck

saulat

I was a little worried about that when I used the ammonia reducing product. I did about a 30% change this morning and picked up the test kit on my way to work. I'll probably take the readings tomorrow morning.

I noticed some 25 and 50ft long gravel vacuums. Do these work well? I may get a plant too as I here they will help some with high ammonia levels, just worried about them using up oxygen in the tank.

Sorry if I am considered inhumane but I don't want to offend, argue, or get into an ethical debate with anyone.

Lucy

50% daily water changes will help keep the ammonia/nitrite levels down for the sake of the fish. If you use Prime as your water conditioner, that'll detox the ammonia for 24 hours between changes but still make it available to the bacteria.

Do a search on the forum for python. Several members use them and love them. I use a regular gravel vac.
I'm not sure about plants helping with ammonia levels. They do help with nitrate levels.
You can add an airstone to help the cycle along.

Angela_96

If you are going to keep cichlids the plants will get eaten and dug up. You might want to consider marmo balls (moss balls) or fake plants.

ABCDemily

Silver Dollars get massive, and probably aren't best for a newbie, as the space needed is huge.

saulat

I would have to look but it is a yellow bottle, i think ph plus is the water conditioner and reduces ammonia. I did a 50 percent water change this morning and will continue to do it until I get around to testing the levels. The gravel vac workedpretty well with a bucket today too.

saulat

Just took some readings with my kit and would love some feedback.

Ammonia - Approximately 0.3 PPM
Nitrate - Approximately 15 ppm
Nitrite - 0
PH - 7.8
Hardness - 150
alkalinity - 80

TFA101

At this point, your cycle has only just begun. Your Nitrite and Nitrate still have to sky rocket and fall before its over.

And btw, if you wanted instant gratification, why didn't you just pick up a bottle of Tetra brand "Safe Start". It cycles the tank with the proper bacteria in as little as two days and is much more humane than putting the fish through the cycle. It can be found at your local fish specialist store.

I'm sorry for bringing up this subject at your request not too, but I too find this cycling with fish thing a little disturbing. Even though they can't tell you it hurts them, it does, and research has proven that permanent lifelong damage occurs when fish are put through this cycle. The hobby of fish keeping is not an instant gratification thing, it requires patience and at times self discipline. Trust me, we've all been through the "cycling process" and we all know that it is SOOOO time consuming, but we all want whats best for our pets that will allow them to live long and happy lives. Because I cycled, I have a fish who has lived beyond her average life span, a clown plecostomus who will turn 11 years old in september.

I don't make decisions for people, and your decision is in your hands. If instant gratification through cycling with fish is what you want, nobody's stopping you.

Good luck with your cycle, and feel free to ask any more questions you may have

saulat

The pet store people who seemed pretty knowledgeable recommended against the instant cycling stuff, I don't remember why. I have no problem doing that. I've encountered people who say just put some danios in the tank to cycle and that they are hearty and work for it. Just don't have the emotional attachment to something I have used for food for other animals. Feeding mice to snakes and fish to frogs and things like that I don't feel is a whole lot different, please don't elaborate I know it is a different thing. I like the tank for the tranquility, beauty, and behavior of the fish. The fish brain is not so developed as to cause me guilt, I would feel different with an animal more developed. Not feeling the emotional attachment is one thing but I don't want to cause damage to the fish if I can avoid it. All the negative feedback may have changed my mind in hindsight perhaps with cycling with fish. At the same time people are not exactly eco conscious in their daily lives, at some point convenience and pleasure prevail over what should be correct behavior and I guess that is how I feel.

I will let everyone know how the stuff works out. Is there anything I should monitor? Will the bacteria starve if the levels of ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite are not high enough yet? Also the water was pretty hard, is that something I need to fix?

TFA101

if the water is hard, its gonna be hard to soften it, but most fish can adapt to different water hardnesses. However, I would choose fish more suitable to a hardwater habitat including the guppies that you were considering, platies, mollies, and corydoras catfish are pretty adaptable. Thats a colorful community right there.

saulat

I think I would love to have some loaches or eels but I think my tank is too small and not sure how hard it would be to switch to sand.

TFA101

Kuhli loaches are quite small, only obtaining about 3 inches in length and they don't contribute much to the bioload. You could remove some rock and make a little corner of the tank sandy for the loaches if you wanted.

saulat

That is interesting. I'll look around see if I can find a place that carries them around here.

TFA101

once you have some fish in mind, we would be more than happy to suggest some appropriate stocking suggestions for you to add to your tank. Of course, after it has completed the cycle

saulat

I added the bio start stuff a day or two ago (I wrote down the date). I am about to check the ammonia levels and decide whether to do a water change now. I found an article that seems fairly suited to me. How do these schemes sound? Also would the loaches stay on one area that is sand and not go to the rocky part of the tank?? Thanks.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Freshwate...on-Hexagon.htm

TFA101

Well it depends. I was under the impression we were working around the 10 gallon tank. Did you after all get that 32 gallon tank you mentioned earlier?


No, the kuhlis prefer sand, but they will burrow under gravel too. They won't restrict themselves to the one corner of the tank, but they do prefer to stay hidden until night.

saulat

Oh, yes sorry. I picked up a 35 gallon hex tank. I went to petland again and then jacks aquarium. I also picked up some library books to read up on different things. I got some grass looking stuff and something that is thick and bushy, forget the names of the plants.

I also picked up some red slate rocks, removed the cheesy decor from the tank, found some more coral I got in mexico that may go into the tank, and my gravel is large rocks which are probably a square inch each.

I made a list of fish that I am wanting to get. I think some different colored swordtails (or is it fins), a few Mollys, a clown or rubber plecostomis, and from here I am less sure what I want. Maybe a few clown loaches, would love something eel like that is a bottom feeder, and something else that is more top level dweller. I could figure out whether the mollys or swordtails were middle or top dwellers. I liked the glowfish and think that if they get along with the swordtails and mollys I may get a group of them. Does this sound doable?

4-5 swordtails (black and red)
2 mollys (do I need more) (creamsickle and maybe some dalmation)
1 smaller species plecostomis
4-5 clown loaches or other eel like or neat bottom feeder
5-6 Glowfish
anything else that may help fill out the tank

Also but less important I am needing to get some background for the back of the tank and hopefully something to fill out the middle and upper area of the tank plants or something. Suggestions would be great. Thanks.

saulat

I may repost this so I don't have a super long rambling thread.

TFA101

If you're looking at mollies, I must mention that they are not hardy fish and they do need near marine conditions to thrive. However, I like the idea of Swordtails. If I were you (which I am not), I would add a healthy male swordtail, 3-4 females of the same color type, and let them populate the tank themselves. Thats what I did with my platies. If you want some more diversity, Corydoras catfish do the trick as they are hardy catfish and very playful with each other. The clown loaches grow to about a foot long, so if you're looking for a neat bottom feeder, Kuhli loaches are the way to go.

4 Swordtails (1 male, 3 females)
1 Bristlenose Plecostomus
5 Kuhli Loaches or your choice of Corydoras Catfish
4-6 Glofish

saulat

Thanks, I think kuhli loaches were what I meant to say. I did start another thread on this here. The person said I should not have a dead coral in a freshwater tank, is that correct?

35 gallon hex stocking scheme