Betta_dude

Im finally thinking of switching to sand. First off some day I might try keeping cichlids most likely angels,firemouths,jack dempseys, or oddball fish such as knife fish or dragon gobys. would sand be ok for those kind of fish? I dont want to switch then end up switching back. What I want to know first is if Quikrete playsand is ok. Hop2jr said its ok in the post bellow but I want a second opinoin.
what gravel for african cichlids?

this is the sand im planning on getting if I cant get pool filter sand.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...351&lpage=none


Im planning on using a method from this post here:Best way to switch

Now what about stirring up the sand. I know MTS are great for this, but what else?I heard kulies can but Nobody keeps kulies around here, so I would have to order them through petco. I cant order online. Do I have to move the rocks and ornaments when I stir the sand up? This is the best time for me to do this cause im on spring break, so I have a whole week to do it.

griffin

i use the playsand, and it's good to go as long as you rinse first.

don't know a lot about the fish you want, so i'm no help there. i also use mts, so not really sure about stir schedule, although i have heard that it's only every few months, and i would tend to think that you would want to get under rocks and ornaments, but that's just a guess on my part

Live Wire

Couple questions I have about this... How does one rinse sand? I can only think of one good way and that is to pour the sand into a fishless tank or bucket that is full of clean water. Wait for the sand to settle and then remove as much water as possible. Slowly move the "mud" into fishtank.

Second question is what increments do you remove the nylon bag of substrate... can beneficial bacteria collect on the sand? The only way I can see removing the old substrate is pulling a little out each day and hopefully new bacteria will recolonize on the ornaments or in the filter. This is effectively going to cause mini-cycles for awhile as youre pulling out the substrate?

Dozey

I would recommend that you change all the gravel to sand at the same time. Fill pantyhose with the old gravel. I did this recently in order to change my gravel and it worked like a charm. No mini-cycle or other adverse effects.

In the picture you can see what appear to be two large blue rocks. They are in fact my gravel filled pantyhose. I also put an air stone under each sack to keep water flowing through the old gravel while my new gravel seeded.

I would suggest leaving the old gravel in for at least 3 weeks although I played on the side of caution and left mine in for 6 weeks.

A little unsightly for a few weeks but it does eventually come out and you then are rewarded with the substrate of your preferred choice.

Good luck!

pantyhose.JPG

Betta_dude

Of course, in the case of sand wouldnt the air stone kick the sand up?

Tombraider

Hi, You may want to visit the Practical Fishkeeping site at www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum
this topic is under discussion at the moment. I've pasted below an article one of the moderators, Michelle Clark posted.
I'm new to fish keeping and this came as a big surprise to me. Hope it helps.

Anthony.


Warning. Be careful when using sand as a substrate.

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Hi there,

You probably already know that using sand in a tank can pose a danger if the sand compacts. In brief, It can become Anaerobic and this causes the release of dangerous gasses that can be very dangerous even lethal to aquatic life.

It is always a good idea to regularly mix up your sand and clean it. This helps prevent compaction and helps prevent anaerobic bacteria. Tell tail sign is a blackening of the substrate both on the top or mainly under the surface of the sand and or, the health of your fish can suddenly change.

We've been using sand for years, firstly we used it without adding small gravel then we used a mix of small gravel and sand. We've never had any compaction issues even when our sand has been around the 1.5 to 2inch depth mark. I clean the sand once a week with a gravel cleaner, so it is well mixed and aerated. I also clean the sand surface daily with a battery vac.

Recently I decided to use some very fine play sand (designed for childrens play pits) for the first time. This play sand is much finer than the fine washed river sand we've used over the years. Too fine really, it seemed to fly around the tank like powder even after four weeks. It was fully washed and did not cloud the water. I kept it to a depth of no more than one inch at the deepest towards the back of the tank, it was around half an inch mainly. I hoovered the surface daily with a battery vac and once a week I used a gravel cleaner to fully deep clean it all. After the first week I could already see slight areas that looked ever so slightly darker when they were deep cleaned with the gravel cleaner. So I set about keeping an even closer eye on the sand.

Yesterday was weekly maintenance day, so I set about cleaning the sand, I'd only deep cleaned it the previous Tuesday. It had turned Anaerobic, under the surface of the sand was a very dark grey, the smell was horrible. The more I cleaned the worse it got. So I set about syphoning all the sand out and I replaced it with gravel. Then I increased the air supply to the tank and did a really large water change.

I was incredibly surprised that this kind of problem can come on so fast. I've used sand for years without problems, all I can think of is this sand is so very fine it just compacted so very quickly. Even with corydoras and a bristlenose pleco digging all day long it still compacted.

I know that a large amount of members on this forum use the same play sand as substrate without problems. The sand did not alter my pH and I did not see any changes in my water test results. I wanted to post this as an extra warning to check your sand even more.

One other tell tale sign is the health of your fish. Bottom dwellers will get sick first, I noticed a couple of my bronze corys had gone very pale. Again, I was really shocked to see such compaction so quickly, with such a good a thorough daily top clean and weekly deep clean.

So the moral of the story check your substrate and check again. My corys have regained their colouration, one sadly is very sick after yesterdays sand removal, I'm keeping a very close eye on her.
__________________
Michelle Clark

Dozey

The sand shouldn't be stirred up by the air stone. As to Tombraider’s post, this is a well known issue with a sand substrate. As the article mentions you do need to stir up stand well and purchasing fish that will dig often in the substrate is also advisable.

Play sand generally has a high clay contact and is very susceptible to compression issues. I have rarely (if ever) seen folks advocate its use.

You may remember as a kid trying to play in a sand box after a good rain. It wasn’t much fun. Good for building sand castles but not much good to run your fingers through.

mr. Clown Loach

use pool filter sand