Je55*e

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS...arinesand20lbs

I'll also be supplementing the plants with flourish excel, iron, root tabs.
What do you think?

cerianthus

Since MFG claimes its inertness, could use for F/W. There are other sand w/ aragonite which should NOT be used in F/W.
Only posssible scenerio down the road w/ sand is that deep sand bed can create so called Dead Zone (anaerobic Condition), just like marsh area, which you don't want in the tank. Only way i can think of to avoid DEAD zone is have enough fish (Kuhli loach, etc) which will contantly distub the sand bed to keep it aerobic. Another method to avoid dead zone is to use Heating Mat (Europeans used to do it) on the bottom glass from outside or heating coils for inside use. Warm water will always rise, thus should have some sort of circulation w/i substrate but since sand is so compact, it may not be as effective as gravel. this type of heating method is more expensive (need mat, sensor and thermostat) but more effective for plants than common submersible heater due to circulation which will bring nutrients to where the roots are from water (fish waste, liquid fertilizer). Also look into heating mat made for reptiles which might be cheaper and simpler.
If I may suggest, look into Seachem Flourite substrate for planted tank. This product does work better than other substrate on the market. When iron are dosed, flourite will pull it in to where roots are. This product is lot easier than products that I used to use such as laterite, clay, etc.
As far as Flourish Excel, this is alternative to CO2 injection according to MFG. I think you can make home made version of CO2 injector from plastic bottles using sugar and yeast. Google for this method. Too much for home, then overstocked the tank a bit w/ fishes w/o any aeration during light hours . Aeration will drive CO2 out of tank. This way, CO2 from fish can be used for photosynsis. But if you are overstocked, use mild aeration during when light id off thus fish won't suffocate overnight since even plant will use O2 during night time. Have the light and air pump on timer so you don't have to remember to turn and/or off. Hope this helped you alittle.

sirdarksol

Malaysian trumpet snails will stir a sand bed very well.
Sand can compact around plants' roots, making it tough for them to draw sustenance. MTS will fix this, as well.
Cerianthus is right on having something with iron for part of the substrate. I have mixed sand and fluorite, and, though the stuff clouds the water for the first couple of days, it sure makes a quality plant bed.

My opinion, however, is that EcoComplete is the best simple planted substrate available. I don't have to use any ferts or additives for my plants in the tank that has EcoComplete. It's not much more expensive than most sands, either. The only downside is that it comes in one color; dirt black.

Je55*e

Cerianthus: forgive my ignorance, but what is "MFG"? And thank you very much for all of the information. I am planning to get at least one snail (not sure which type) and Kuhli Loaches to stir up the sand.

Sirdarksol: I've never heard of ecocomplete. Thanks for the information. I'll try to look for it online. I was hoping for white sand, but I can tolerate black if it's better for everything. :P

Je55*e

Sirdarksol: is this what you mean: http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCat...ype=0&offset=0

I am looking for sand, because of the Kuhli Loaches. They don't do too well in gravel.

Butterfly

Eco-Complete is very light and doesn't compact. I have kept Kuhlis with this and they love it
Here's a not real good pic
Carol

Attached Images

MVC-007S.JPG (52.0 KB, 41 views)

Je55*e

^Thanks for the picture. ^^ Lovely fish and plants.

sirdarksol

EcoComplete is good with kuhlis. It looks like gravel, but it's actually soft to the touch. It's mostly partly decomposed plant matter (think the stuff that makes dirt black).
I believe that the sand you're looking at actually is not good with kuhlis. It actually says so on the bag. It has glass-sharp little edges, and kuhlis almost literally drag themselves across the sand. It wouldn't hurt a fish that just bumped into the sand periodically, but the continuous contact leaves the kuhlis' bellies raw.

Butterfly

The Kuhlis I have now are on pool filter sand and they do fine but any other kind will scratch them. They slither on top and burrow down in the sand so it has to be something smooth.
Carol

sirdarksol

Ah, pool filter sand. Forgot about that. It's also cheaper than the Caribbean Moon stuff, if I remember past discussions correctly.

Butterfly

Yep it was about $6 for 50 pound but the price will vary from locale to locale.
I have used play sand and didn't like it at all. My skunk loaches didn't like it either. They would dig in it and then look like they were sneezing () I can only assume it was scratching them and it hurt when they dug in it. They came out of that tank fast and the play sand went bye-bye.
Pool filter sand comes in colors from bright white (shows e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g)
on down to what I have in the 75g which is a creamy color. Still shows a lot of stuff but is better than bright white. I have pics that show those colors if you need them.
The Eco-complete was excellent for the Kuhlies as well as the Corys. It is light enough they were forever turning it over looking for yummies the only thing I didn't like was looking right at the EC for my black kuhlis and not seeing them but it was pretty funny having the striped kuhlis run over them and having them jump sky high looking like they came from nowhere LOL
I have always had Malaysian Trumpet Snails in my sand tanks. They mostly come out at night. They are livebearers so no eggs strung every where As long as I do my water changes and substrate vacuums consistently and don't over feed they don't over populate. Snails are the first sign your overfeeding or not vacuuming enough. They will multiply according to the food available.
Here's a little more info on sand for a substrate. http://www.fishinthe.net/html/sectio...rticle-50.html Hope that helps
Carol

Je55*e

Thank you all for the information. I will definitely drop that sand, I didn't even see that it hurts the poor Kuhlis! =/ Good of them to write that, though.
Where does one get pool filter sand? I've seen lots of tanks around here with it, and it looks very nice. I'm also still considering the ecocomplete.

Butterfly

Any place that services swimming pools will have it Let me forwarn you though... they really look at you funny when you tell them it's going in an aquarium
Carol

Je55*e

^Haha, I can imagine. So for a twenty gallon, I will just ask for twenty pounds. Is there anything I should watch out for/ask the salesperson? Such as, if it contains a chemical that would hurt my fish?

sirdarksol

It should be just silica. Still, it can't hurt to ask.

Je55*e

^Thanks, will do.

Butterfly

I think it only comes in 50 pound bags that should leave you enough for another tank Thats the good thing about pool filter sand. It goes in the swimming pool filter so shouldn't have anything harmful in it.
But never hurts to ask.
carol

catbtony

I used a thin layer of peat moss and topped with pool sand for a planted tank I had, worked great, I would use a wooden dowel to stir the open area holding the vacuuem 1-2 inches over the area when I hydrocleaned to prevent dead zone and lightly went over the plants never disturbing the roots, read the lables on the plant foods some contain copper which is a problem for some fish but mostly shrimp and snails.

cerianthus

I am sorry, meant manufacturer. Must be getting old, LOL