Gozer_1

LOL, yeah I kinda got carried away with that last post. I know no one thinks I'm a big meanie. I have a habit of playing the role of Devils advocate. Like I said, it probably has a little to do with my own feelings of guilt. lol I totaly understand and fully respect your feelings. As I mentioned with the Boa Constrictor I had. I like mice and rats as much or more than I enjoyed having the snake. So, it was really hard to feed her live or not. So, you can see, I have a little of the same feelings you do. I guess viewing the feeder fish as a food item is really a defense mechanism.

You know when it comes down to it, there is no way I could hunt an animal or kill my food. I used to like to fish once in awhile. Now I hate it. I look at those fish and see my pet fish. I guess in a way that makes me some what confused. lol

On a side note, I have found it very difficult to catch feeders in amongst plants, so I think I'll likely not be using live food any more. I know I know after all that. I found a frozen veggie\meat cube that the Oscar loves. I still gotta feed crickets to my gecko though.

timg

When it comes down to it, we all have choices to make with our "pets", and it is very much personal choice as to what we do. I don't condemn anyone for their beliefs or methods unless it is outright cruelty, such as dancing bears or bull-fighting, both of which are outrageous and totally cruel.

My choice is to let nature have her way. If the fish that started this was meant to die, it would have. As it happens, I have 15 healthy, normal fry from this anomoly, which makes me think that I made the right decision to let it live with its defect. If others take different routes, that's their choice.

Thank you all for all the wonderful comments this thread has generated. Please continue, because it's such a lively debate that it would be a shame to have it come to an end!

Mother and fry are all doing well, and I have now returned the mother to the main tank with her offspring, where they are happily playing with the other 25 or so newborns that have arrived in the last week or so!

Gozer_1

It has been an interesting thread yes. One point to make here is there is a huge difference between feeding live and just tossing a disabled or "ugly" fish to it's death. Not saying anyone here would. Just pointing out the difference.

Honestly, this thread has made me think a lot about the topic at hand. I was only feeding live once in a while any way, so what real benefit was it giving to the Oscar? Sure I gut load them with good stuff, but I could put vitamins and such right on the frozen food if I felt the need. So, I guess you can call me a pseudo convert. Like I said, the gecko gets live food.

I guess it takes two sides to make a good conversation. At least around here at Fishlore it still comes back to this instead of this Pretty open minded round these parts.

Sorry I just really wanted to use those smilies.

Isabella

Actually, for most animals, it's best to eat live, raw, fresh food (provided it's healthy). That's how they feed in nature. So you have a good reason to feed your Oscars with live foods. The only reason I don't do this is because I don't like seeing animals being eaten alive. This does not mean live food is not good for fish health. Live foods have more nutritious value for animals than dead/frozen foods. That's a fact.

Chief_waterchanger

I am glad you all have convictions that you choose to stick by, it makes you who you are.

We would and do "dispose of" disabled fish if and when we believe the disability/deformality to be a severe cause of pain for the fish. Usually the method of "disposal" for a physically disabled fish, such as severe curvature of the spine, we put it in the tank with our chaca chaca. We've got a female guppy with severe curvature of the spine that has survived in the tank for months now, but eventually the chaca will catch her off guard and will eat her. If it is severe enough to warrant euthenasia we have no qualms with doing that either. My point of view is, "I would rather push any personal feelings of remorse or regret of the act out of my mind, as it is helping the fish get out of pain." That is not to say I think it is wrong, I was brought up to not do harm to pets, and purposefully killing one is hard, but when it is for the better I have learned to surpress my emotions and get the job done.

I am not saying you all are "wrong" because as I said, it is a morality call, and when it comes to morality it is hard to have right and wrong actions.

Glad you all enjoy the discussion from different view points.

Gozer_1

I actually plan to continue feeding live worms and a cricket or two. I'm just not going to continue on with feeder fish. I had a couple left in my 45 after I planted it. I found out very quickly how difficult it is to catch fish in a planted tank. Even one as lightly planted as mine is right now. I had planned on keeping feeders in there. Not going to work. Especially after I saw one of the little buggers munching on roots. I was only feeding live fish once maybe twice a month. Meh, not worth the effort. The crickets and worms will make up for it.

COBettaCouple

what about those freezer packs of feeder fish or something like catfish nuggets from the seafood dept.? how do those compare to live feeder fish?

Isabella

Dave, in one of my books, it is explained very well of how and why live animals are best food for other animals. If I can find the page on which it's written, I'll copy it here. It has something to do with the quality of the flesh/meat - the longer you wait after it's been killed, the worse in quality and nutrition it becomes, or something like that. And actually, the way you kill an animal, also affects the quality of the meat it will become. It's a very interesting info - I'll try to find it tonight before I go to sleep.

P.S. Even frozen foods don't have the quality that a freshly-hunted, raw, and live animal has in terms of nutrition for another animal. That's the way nature intented it to be, I guess (Also: The way the animal to be killed is raised, affects the quality of its meat greatly too - but we already know that from our own experience; i.e. the meat with growth hormones with which our animals to be killed are injected, as well as the way these animals are treated before they're killed, all make the meat we buy - in fact - a poison.)

Jimmster

A simple way to determine if the gene is likely to show up again. Do a simple punnett square.

Isabella

Dave, I totally forgot about the info I was supposed to find. I'll try to remember to look for it this weekend

COBettaCouple

and i sat here patiently waiting for it! np.

Isabella

SORRY once again !!! (That's you hitting me, of course!)

COBettaCouple

i'm afraid that it's too late.. i must release the bananawarriors!
! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Isabella

Now, it really is too late, lol Dave, still didn't have the chance to go through the book. I've been so busy lately (you may have seen less of me on Fish Lore last couple of days). I will try to find it still, just give me some time.

COBettaCouple

i'll think about it. np.. i know how it is when you've got a million things to do.