lili70

I agree.

I wouldn't recomend breeding though .... I just came back from a conference about genetics. Genetic accidents happen but we shouldn't necesarilly multiply them.
L

Alistriwen

I give my deformed livebearer fry a chance at life... in the convict tank .

COBettaCouple

if need be, i'd separate and/or prevent breeding of a fish, but want to give every fish the chance to live with a good quality of life and she's overcome great odds to live more than a very short life.

when our platy had deformed fry, most died within 2 weeks, but the 4 who survived (3 now after an ulcer outbreak) are happy little platy. They're a bit lumpy and rather small compared to a normal platy but we love to watch the way they swim around and they're definitely happy fish. for them, breeding isn't an option though.

Isabella

I didn't mean breeding, but rarther simply letting it live if it's able to live happily

Isabella

Is that a joke or are you serious?

Gozer_1

When it comes time to feed fish that eat live food you have to make a choice. If you choose to raise your own food, then why keep the deformed and feed the normal. Somebody has to go. Sorry to be the devils advocate here but I own an Oscar and he LIIIIKES live food. So, I had to make the choice to feed him a proper diet. Might as well make up for natures mistakes. If breeding for food supply you'd want the healthiest to survive anyway. In fact in nature, deformed animals rarely make it into adulthood. For example, albinos are VERY RARE in nature because they are easily spotted and easily eaten.

In my defense, I always kept any deformed guppies when I had a guppy tank. They all had an equal chance to live. I didn't have any fish that would eat them at the time though.

I once saw a video of a dog with only 2 legs, both on the same side. That dog could run and jump pretty well like a normal dog.

timg

Just to let you know, she had the fry and they appear to be normal! (Another 15 to add to the many!)

Gozer_1

Very nice. I once had a crooked guppy but she was bent the other way, side to side. She kind of swam in some kind of circular pattern. She didn't live very long and not because of any action of mine. She couldn't swim normaly. Probably made it hard to get enough food. I also had a deformed TinFoil Barb. He had a crooked mouth. We affectionately called him
"Dome-us Dissfuctionis" He died young also. No matter how I tried he just couldn't eat very well. It looked like maybe he had really smashed his face into a wall when he was very small. Like his jaw was knocked sideways. Nature took its course and they lived short lives. I gave them a good home and a fighting chance. Not much else I could do.

On a side note. I hate it when I get especially pretty feeder fish for the Oscar. I have one right now that I secretly want to grow too big for the Oscar to eat lol. Alas I don't have room for a gold fish. Sounds funny, but I've seen some BIG Goldfish. So, I gotta suck it up and tell myself its food. I had a 5Ft Boa for awhile but mice and rats are just too cute. I had to sell the snake. I just didn't need that kind of pet. I'll stick to those that eat crickets and feeder fish.

Isabella

I am very happy to hear this!

Gozer, I understand what you're saying and you're making a good point. See, that's why I don't keep any fish big enough to have other smaller live fish as food. I just don't like the sight of anything being eaten alive. I also can't knowingly give a live creature to be eaten by another creature. I know this is the law of nature and that's how animals live in the wild. I know all of this, but I just can't watch any animal (not to mention a human being! ) being eaten alive or otherwise being tortuted and abused in any way.

P.S. I know Angels like live foods (Angels are the biggest fish I have), but I feed them with frozen foods instead of live ones.

COBettaCouple

yea, our Angel "Fred" goes after his new food like it's ambrosia! I'm glad the Julies get some of it. we are trying out the Omega One brand with the floating cichlid pellets. we also feed them frozen bloodworms and are going to get them other frozen foods for carnivores. I have nothing against people feeding their carnivores feeders, but I'm with you Isabella and would rather not drop a live fish in to be ripped up and eaten. Plus i hate to keep having to make trips to the store for food or have to maintain yet another tank just to have food. It seems easier and cheaper to me to go with frozen meat.. not to mention safer.

anyway.. congrats on the fry Tim.. i know you're running low on fish there.

Tom

Holy crip, it's a crapple. lol Hope she does well.
Tom

Barbrella

But in the wild, the prey does have a fair chance to escape. Not so when trapped in a small space with a predator.

Gozer_1

Predators have to eat too. I choose to keep a predator and so must accept this fact. I DO NOT "trap" the feeders in a "small" space with the Oscar. I feed my pet a needed food item. You may be horrified to learn that I hand feed the Oscar. The feeders have NO chance of survival. Why prolong the inevitable. I don't see a feeder fish as any different than a cricket or an earthworm. I use those for pet food too. I have a very strong sense of responsibilty for my animals and so choose to give them everything I can to make their lives as good as I know how. I don't have a cruel intent in my body. I didn't choose to own an Oscar because I could torture little fishes. I chose to own one because they are Beautiful fish and have amazing personalities.

Sorry to be so passionate about it. I just feel I need to express that live food is not a cruel thing. Only the people doing the feeding can make it cruel. It may be assisted by humans, but it is still natural for predators to eat prey.
On the deformed fish note, a lot of predators look for the weak and injured prey. They make for an easy catch. So, in nature the deformed would be the first to go.

Gozer_1

I keep only a few feeders at a time in an already established tank. Also, dead frozen meat can't eat nutrient rich food and such before being used as feed. I like to feed my feeders with a good Veggie rich meal before they get served to the Oscar. The Oscar doesn't like to eat her veggies so this is a nice way for me to trick her in to it. Also, Oscars eat their prey in one bite. No ripping to shreds, just one gulp and it's over. As far as safer, I'll give you that one. If you don't keep your feeders for awhile before feeding, you may pass on disease. My feeders are quarantined before even being added. So I do have an extra tank for feeders but I use it to quarantine anything I need too.The feeders go in the 45 fresh when ready. And yes going to the store for feeders a lot is a pain but 1 I have to buy crickets anyway, 2 I don't use that many feeders, and 3 I enjoy the pet store. lol

I know I know, I'm getting going again. Sorry lol. Maybe feeling a little guilty. Like I said I don't enjoy feeding live food. It's just a part of a wide variety of foods I feed and Oscars are REALLY hungry.

COBettaCouple

yea.. i suppose i could feed them buffalo meat, or the neighbor's cat.
yea, i've got nothing against using feeder fish, i just am totally out of space for tanks and when i find more, i just can't see using it for feeders.. i'm looking for the best frozen foods i can for the cichlids, something vegetarian fed and run through the process to make it free of nasty bugs.

Barbrella

I"m sure my cats would really enjoy a live mouse or bird, but they're not getting one. They don't need live food and neither do oscars.

We all have different opinions, and that's mine.

COBettaCouple

how are mama & fry doing?

Isabella

That's very true. That's why it does sound cruel.

Yes. that's true.

Yes, that's true too. But as Barbrella has pointed out, it's very different when a hunted animal is out in the open as opposed to being in an enclosed space with truly no chances of any escaping. Imagine how you felt if you were thrown into a cage with lions and nowhere to run. That's so terrifying!

I, on the other hand, see feeder fish in the same way I see my fish-pets. They're just as alive as my fish-pets are, and it was not their choice to become feeder fish. Humans have designated them to be so. In nature, they're living in the same way all other fish do. And they deserve it just the same as other fish do. Even crickets and earthworms are living creatures who deserve their chance at life too Of course, this is NOT to say it's not OK for animals to hunt each other in nature, because it is. That's how the natural world operates anyway - so there is nothing we can do about it. Though it is unnatural for a feeder animal to be trapped in some cage/container where it is eaten by its predator. That does not happen in nature (the trapping, that is). And the predator in captivity is not really hunting - it's just eating what's been already caught for it.

Gozer, nobody is suggesting you have some "cruel intent" in your body, lol We know you don't Of course you want what is best for your fish, as we all do Some of us like to feed our fish with live foods, and others don't. I personally don't like to, because I don't like the sight of a trapped creature being eaten alive. That's why I use frozen foods. That's my choice, just like your choice is to feed your fish with live foods.

LOL, once again, nobody is suggesting you intend to torture little fish! Heh And I agree, Oscars really are beautiful and intelligent fish I'd do my best for them too, if I had them And there is no need to apologize for being passionate - it only shows you care about your pets