Jackie Frost

I feel so bad you guys. The platys are begining to look sick with inflamed looking gills and white patches on their scales (Just like Goldie before he died.) I don't know what to do about it. I'm cycling with Safe Start!

Oh and I tested with amonia (even though I know you're not supposed to with Safe Start) and it tested at 0.20. What to do next?

The snails seem fine by the way.

bubblefish

Do you have Prime water conditioner? if you don't, I owuld suggest that you get some. It detoxifies ammonia and nitrite for 24 hours so it should hold you between water changes. You should also do 25% or more water changes daily. If you can do more than 25%, it would be better. Use the Prime each time.

I've never used Tetra Safe Start so someone else may be able to add something about this product.

Jackie Frost

I do have Prime and I want to start water changes, but Prime is supposed to screw up Tetra Safe Start royally! It locks up the amonia the beneficial bacteria need to feed on. I will do it though if I absolutely have too. It doesn't look like the Tetra Safe Start is working anyway.

Lucy

That's right, Tetra recommends not using anything that detox's when using TSS.
How long ago did you add it? Did you add the correct amount?
What was your ammonia reading before you added it?
How long before adding TSS did you use Prime?

kelsangdol

Also, I wanted to add on more question.
Was the bottle of TSS in a very high or low temperature before being used?
How much fish did you stock in the tank?
What kind of de chlorinator are you using now and before TSS?
ANY ammonia remover or chloramine remover could screw up TSS too

Jackie Frost

I didn't use any Prime. I used TSS two days ago when I first got the platys. Initial amonnia testing then and yesterday was 0.0. What changes though was the snails. I have three snails (two golf sized ones and a pea sized one) so that maybe over loading the bio output. It's so ironic. Only yesterday I was worried that my fish weren't producing enough waste for the Safe Start to feed on.

Just caught your last question. I ordered the TSS from an online fish store. It took only two days to deliver. I told them to send me the freshest bottle they had and when I unsrapped it the bottle was cool to the touch but not refrigerated cool. I live in Florida and warm weather is usually the norm.

I stocked with three platys in a 15 gallon tank. But I got three snails yesterday.

Lucy

I'm not sure about the bio-load of snails. I've heard it's pretty high. If that's true, the golf ball size ones might have put you over.
Or it could be stress from being in a new tank.
Did you acclimate them slowly to your water?
(let them float for about an hiur while slowly adding tank water to the fish store water)
Sometimes the pH could be very diffferent from yours.

Meenu

the test results don't mean much with the tss in the tank. when i used prime with the tss, it messed it up and i had to start again.

my fish had red gills but before i added the tss (i was trying to do the daily wc with prime method, got another bottle of tss when the fish started getting ammonia poisoning). Once I added the TSS, within a couple of days it got better.

Is it possible that the fish were suffering from ammonia poisoning before the addition of the tss, at the store? maybe it's the results of that you are seeing?

I think you can either just scrap the tss method and do the prime and daily wc's. Or, what I would do is to leave it alone, keep an eye on the platies. If the redness gets worse or they start going to the top of the tank to breathe, then start the daily wc/prime thing. The TSS may still work. And I know everyone here seems to like the wc/prime thing, but my experience with that wasn't so great. My fish would get red gills when I tried it. I'd have to add TSS and then after about 2-3 days the redness would be gone.

Jackie Frost

Absolutely! I let the bag float for half an hour, put a little bit of my aquarium water into the bag, fifteen minutes later I added a little more aquarium water, after another 15 I carefully netted them and let them swim free. It's not the drip method but I thought that would work. I might have been wrong.

It probably is the snails. Ironically enough they don't seem to be hurting at all. I'm not sure how to correct the problem now. Remove the snails? And is this red gill behavior normal with Safe Start? Something went wrong, correct?

Meenu

it sounds like the snails may be overwhelming the bacteria. any chance the gills were already red and you didn't notice before, or is it really new?

are the platies still returnable? maybe you can return them and finish your tss cycle with your snails, and then buy the platies again in a few weeks?

Jackie Frost

No, I think it's new. I never noticed the red gills or white patches before. I don't think Aqua Fanatics will accept them back if they're sick. I might get away with red gills, but not the white patches. Still I'll call them in the morning to make sure. But do you think the TTS is working? Did I get a bum bottle?

Meenu

i don't know about the white patches, what they could be...

i;m not sure about the bottle of tss either... i'm at a loss. but you already know that as much as i love tss, it took 4 bottles for it to finally work for me. for me, at least, it was super finicky.

maybe you could leave the snails in with the tss, and just watch them carefully. if your LFS won't take the platies back, set up an inexpensive hospital tank for them (you can get it done for about 35 dollars), and do the prime with the platies.

Quarantine tank

get a rubbermaid from dollar general or walmart, a cheap heater, air pump, and filter. I found a penn plaxx small wonder filter for 5 dollars at petco. petco air filter for 7. submergible heater at the lfs for 13.

then you can separate them, keep the snails from getting sick. just change their water partially every day and add prime to detox...

Jackie Frost

Interesting ...okay, I'll go to Walmart tommorow. See if I can set up that emergency tank. I might even see if I can find another bottle of TSS. I don't think my Walmart has it though, and I know Aqarium Fanatics doesn't. I'm turning going to bed now guys. Wish me and the platy's luck ...

Meenu

good luck platies and jackie frost!

Jackie Frost

Uh oh ...hitch in the plan. I may have to work today. I won't know til 3pm today. Hope the fish and snails can hold out if I can't go til tommorow. Amonia is now 0.50.

Shawnie

what size bottle of tss did you buy ? and how long after adding the tss did you add the snails?

Jackie Frost

The bottle said " ...up to 75 gallons." I added the fish immediately but the snails didn't arrive til three days later.

To add fuel to the fire, I'm going to be out of town on Wednesday for five days!!! I don't know if I can operate a hospital tank while I'm gone. (The tank will come down with the same problem.) I'm thinking now about rushing out to Petco and see if they have a Safe Start bottle or the equivalent. Maybe the safe start just needs a boost?

Shawnie

IMO you HAD enough safestart but unfortunately, allot died off in the 3 days as the bioload wasnt too much with just the fish and the snails bioload added after, did it in can you move the snails OUT to try to salvage some of whats left of the tss?

Jackie Frost

Awwww ...poopie.

Maybe I can move the snails out. I went to Petsmart, but the guys there didn't even know what Tetra Safe Start was? Can you believe it? A major pet company like that? The only thing they could suggest to me was API's Stress Zyme which supposedly contains live bacteria ...but I'm not putting much hope on that since it only costs 4 dollars.

They also suggested I just let the tank go through the 'hard cycle'. They said the platys were hardy fish and would mostly likely survive despite their red gills and eyes. I don't know you guys. I'm kind of sorry I got into Tetra Safe Start now. I thought it was a miracle in a bottle and would cycle my tank in a few days. Turns I'm one of the un-sucessful stories ...

About removing the snails I could maybe find or buy a plastic container for them. But I'm leaving on Wednesday and they'd have to be in that contained for five days. I think they'd be better off in the tank ...amonnia and all.

Tommorow I'm going to go to a far away Walmart in the hopes that they'll have 'Tetra Safe Start'. If that doesn't work I proabably will let them go through the hard cycle though I'd feel like a monster for doing it. It's so ironic. I got the platys because I thought the snail bio-load wouldn't be enough for the Safe Start. The joke's on me I guess. It's a shame my fish and snails have to suffer for it.

Meenu

in my area, tss is only available at local stores, not any chains.
petsmart wouldn't take the platies back? that's too bad...

Jackie Frost

These aren't Petsmart fish. They're Aquarium Fanatic fish and they won't take 'em back without the receipt because and I quote " ...how do we know you got those fish at our store?" Wonderful customer service, huh? No wonder they have so little customers.

And I didn't mean to rant against Tetra Safe Start. I was feeling a little frusturated before. Truth is I think another bottle of Safe Start is the only thing that is going to save my fish right now.

Lucy

I'm sorry Jackie, you really did try.
If you decide to fore go the TSS, daily water changes with Prime will help lessen a 'hard' cycle.
Best of luck.

Edit: btw, what is your pH?

Tigerlily

I've been following your trials Jackie. I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time with TSS. I had to use two bottles with my first tank to get it right. My second tank however, cycled in 9 days. TSS is difficult to find around here but I think I've finally gotten the closest (less than 100 mile round trip anyway) locally owned store to order it. Now if the weather will just cooperate for the shipping. You have sure put a lot of time and energy into this process. I hope you get it resolved soon!

Jackie Frost

Thanks guys! Thanks for your support. My local Walmarts doesn't have it, but I'm hoping maybe the 45 minute bus trip Walmart may have it. Got the day off tommorrow so I might as well try.

Other then the red eyes and gils the platy's are acting perfectly normal. They're as active as ever and still try to beg for food. So that's a good sign I guesse.

As for Prime, when I tried that with my Black Moor, she ended up dying anyway. Even though I did the daily water changes I could never get the amonia lower then 0.25 and the tank never did cycle. So maybe the platys are better off doing it the hard way because at least the tank will eventually cycle...? I don't know.

Oh and I put the egg shells (cleaned with aquarium water) in the tank to help my snails. All three of the snails are all over it and I can't be sure but it looks like they're trying to consume the egg shells. Is that normal? Probably that's a question for another post

Lucy

Walmart doesn't carry it. Save yourself the bus ride. You could call ahead but I'd be afraid they'd get it confused with Right Start or Aqua Safe.

Jackie Frost

Too bad. Do you know of any other place I could try?

Meenu

Oh, you did tell me the fish were from aqua fanatics. sorry your experience with them hasn't been great. i would call around for tss before getting on a bus.

you poor thing, I'm so sorry all this has been so tough.. and now with the complication of leaving for holiday...

Jackie Frost

I'm sort of toying with the idea of ordering a bottle of Safe Start and then collecting it on Monday. It usually takes four days for the TSS to arrive anyway and I'm sure Christmas will slow it down even furthur. Of course there is the chance that it may arrive before I get back. But I do live in Florida and usually the evenings are warm. (Nothing lower then 60 degrees.) Currently we are going through a cold snap (36 tonight) but that is supposed to end by Wednesday. So maybe I'll take that chance. The results can't be worse then they are now. You said you used 4 bottles before it worked Meenu?

Meenu

yes, four bottles of tss and a TON of stress (sounds familiar?) - but I do have a beautifully cycled tank now, steady 0,0,5 parameters for 6 weeks now.

Jackie Frost

Amonnia is at 1.0 today.

This has inspired a new change in plans. Who am I kidding? If the TTS couldn't handle the bio-load at 0.25 what makes me think a miracle is going to happen and it'll handle the amonnia at 1 and rising? So I'm just going to let the tank cycle naturally. I found an excellent article on it at www.fishyou.com/aquarium-cycling.php. No more water changes and no Prime. (It didn't save the lives of my goldfish and it would only slow down the cycling.) The platys are hardy fish and I think they'll make it. The snails at the moment are showing no effects of the excess amonnia.

I will do a 30% water change the moment I come back from my trip with aqua safe. Hopefully by then there will be enough beneficial bacteria by then that the ammonia would have significantly decreased. Of course by then the Nitrites will be kicking in, but at least I'll be half way there.

I feel like a monster you guys but I don't know what else to do? Does anybody have any better ideas? I'm still open to suggestions and nothing is written in stone.