Kivstev

Very frustrating experience with these fish. I've bought 5 now over the last 2 weeks and have lost 3. I now have another showing the same signs.They are fine for 3 to 5 days and then I have problems. The scenario is this:

They do very well for the first 48-96 hours. The fish will then start to hide and lose some color and start to breathe heavily and not eat.Then the fish will then sit on the bottom until death. The deterioration happens very quickly. For instance, 6 hours ago my last two Rams were healthy, and now one of them is at the 'lose color and breathing heavily' phase. They usually die within 12-18 hours when this happens. I saw a couple of them 'floating' around similar to a swim bladder problem shortly before death.

Here are my parameters:
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate 5
DKH: 4
dGH: 5
pH 7.8 (The fish are used to a pH of 7.5 at the store and are bred in the Czech Republic.)
Temp: 80F
No Salt

I have 6 Boesemani, 2 Dwarf Gourami, and a Tiger Pleco in with these fish. My tank is a 55G. I feed a mix of frozen blood worm, frozen brine, frozen black mosquito larvae, HGH Super Soft spiruina pellets, OmegaOne flakes, and rarely Hikari brine shrimp.

The sick Ram is now is a quarantine tank most likely awaiting the same fate. Please help with any opinions. Thanks.

agabr123

how have you been acclimating them? they're very sensitive as you've found out, and IMO the best way to acclimate them is with a drip acclimation over the course of at least an hour or so.

Amanda

I bought 6 & lost them all over a 2 week period. Best of luck.

IIIHawKIII

If you find out let me know. I had 2 golds and a blue all do the EXACT same thing. Whatever it is, it hits them SUPER FAST.

My water was in pristine condition as well. Only thing I can think is stress related somehow. I'm tempted to set up a species only tank and make sure they can handle community environments ok.

Kivstev

UPDATE: The Ram is doing much better in the hospital tank now. She is eating and has much color. Also she is swimming normally and active. I used the Amquel+/Novaqua+ in the hospital tank as well, so I guess I can rule that out as the problem in my 55G. There is a 1/2 TBS Salt per 10 gallons in the hospital tank. Other than that the two tanks have virtually identical measurable parameters.

I put them in a bucket an slowly add water from my tank. Takes about 1 hour or so before I net them and put them in the 55G. I would think they would have a hard time right away if it was indeed an acclimation problem.

Thanks - I need it.

Yes, I think in my case it's either some of the food I'm giving them or it's stress from the Boesemani flying around. If I ever do find out I'll certainly post the solution.

SWilkins

I have read a lot about those fish wow they are pretty. But everything I read says how hard it is to get them acclimated, that they do not do well with any transfers or changes. I cannot think of anything that I would do differently than what you are already doing except maybe just adding one fish at a time. I wish you the best of luck.

jusfishinaround

"Yes, I think in my case it's either some of the food I'm giving them or it's stress from the Boesemani flying around. If I ever do find out I'll certainly post the solution."

Any chance you could move the other inhabitants out for a short period just to be able to introduce the new ones to a calm environment? Then if they were doing well you could add the others one at a time to see how they handle the added stress...just grasping at straws...

Kivstev

I now believe it's certainly stress related.

I moved the sick Ram back into the 55G and it was doing fine until the other Ram found her. The other Ram started chasing and picking on her until she went pale and started to breathe heavy. I immediately moved her back into the quarantine tank.

The Rams were getting along fine up until the one got 'sick'. Maybe I just didn't see the two going at it. The sick one was definitely not up for any confrontation.

I'm not sure if this happened to the other dead Rams or not - but there is a possibility. They seemed to all get along, but who knows what was happening when I wasn't watching. I'm not even sure if I have a male and female anymore as there are many disagreements on how to sex them accurately. I was going by the 'long 2nd dorsal rule' and the 'bluish tint on the black spot' method, but these seem to be fairly unreliable especially with young Rams. I'd post a pic if I had a decent digital cam, but I'm behind the curve I guess.

cerianthus

I cant believe the difficulties with GBR. So easy to keep and breed 10-15 yrs ago.
I never knew fish were imported from Czech Republic.
Even though fish were kept at LFS at pH of 7.5, doesnt necessarily means that they have adjusted. While they may have been adjusting, it went to your tank again to readjust. Very stressful, I'll assume.

Would you like to try again? LMK if you do. BTW, what is your tap pH?

Kivstev

Yes I'd definitely like to try again. My tap is the same as the tank water - 7.7-7.8.

It did seem they had adjusted well since they were all fine from 6 to 72 hours or so. Then they went down hill. But, I'm no expert at this.

I don't even want to breed these fish, just want a few to survive! My healthy one is still doing well after a full week.

cerianthus

Its so unfortunate that so many are having difficulties with beatiful GBR.
GBR which i am famiiar with are shipped in very small bag with ver small amt of water from SE Asia (not even shot glass worth) but still managed to survive and breed when properly acclimated/handled.
All the fish are shipped in slightly acidic water than should be to minimize the toxiciy of NH3 produced during transit including s/w fish.
If they land in NYC, not a problem but if they are unpack and acclimated in an area with hard water (high pH), probably higher mortality rate. Yes it can adpat to higher pH than specified but should be acclimated to same pH as unpacked water then may alter the pH gradually after they are well adjusted in new tank conditions. I am talikng not days but weeks or months in order to reduce their mortality rates.
Your lfs maybe keeping in 7.5 which doesnt necessarily mean they will last long time since they are there to sell, not hold the fish. So you will never know the exactly how many will surive and for how long atbhte lfs.
LfS by me always have tankful of GBR (50 or more) where I can Pick out many breeding/mated pairs everytime time I visit.

Do you have any way you can soften the tankful of water (Inert material container to hold and circulate and maybe a heater)?
You can use Peat Moss in nylon bags in the container and softened the water which will drop the pH of the what now is aged tap. You may want to add pc of true driftwood (no slate attached to wood) in the tank. Should boil the DW somewhat to clean. These process can tint the water a bit which can be dealt with at later time after fish have adjusted to your tank and doing well..

Another important thing is to find out the regular arrival date of GBR (Mon, tu, etc). When possible (Only if they get in many, 50+), you can wait to see how new arrivals are doing before actually buying. this means you may have to visit store on daily bases just to see how well they are doing.
I know, this maybe too much for one fish but I used to do this to learn more and find the way to acquire healthier specimen (higher specimen).

Do you happened to have extra tank w/ heater and simple sponge filter?

Pardon me for more questions but trying to understand the situation better. Is your tank ph as high as tap as posted?

Kivstev

I understand what you are saying, but my lfs has had the same fish in the tank for at least 8 weeks. He seems to get very good stock with other species I have purchased there, ie Boesemani. He specializes in rare and not so rare cichlids and seems to be one of the better suppliers in MA. I sent him a note about my problem and he responded quickly. See here:
http://unclenedsfishfactory.com/Bull...wforum.php?f=2


I have two good sized pieces of Mopani driftwood in the 55 already. It's been in there awhile and no longer is the tank 'stained'. I did boil the heck out of them, too.


More great info and suggestions. Thanks! The store is about 35 miles away, though. Before the Rams it's been well worth the trip.

Yes, I have my 10G quarantine tank with the sickly one in there now. He was doing well until I tried to put him back in the 55G. The other Ram basically was aggressive toward him and now he's 'sick' again in the QT.


No problem at at all. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and trying to help me out. My tank pH and tap pH are both around 7.6-7.8