Lyrae

I am hoping someone can help. It seems the only time I find myself posting is when a fish is sick.

My fiance bought a german blue ram from our LFS on sunday and despite my warnings of "it looks like she has some fin damage" she bought her anyway. Well now we are into full blown sickness and it looks like there are ulcers on her skin and she looks bloated.

I am treating with Maracyn and Maracyn2 to target both gram positive and gram negative bacterial strains (at least the ones sussceptible to these meds).

So i have two questions, in the photos is she bloated from too much food or from eggs or maybe from whatever she has? There are some pellets in the first image. Those were added when i took the picture. She was that bloated from the night before and i don't recall feeding her much of anything and i never saw her move at all for any food while the light to the tank was still on. The remaining pictures show her bloated and some show what i think are ulcers.

Also, is there anything about these pics that people think i should be treating with a different medication?

I've been doing very large water changes every day to prevent ammonia and nitrite from building up. The images are from our 5g hospital tank. So i'd say the water changes are on the order of 80%.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

agabr123

your GBR definitely looks very bloated, how much are you feeding? i'd try feeding some de-shelled cut up pea, that should help if she's constipated. from the pictures it's hard to tell if anything else is wrong, has she responded at all to the maracyn treatments?

cerianthus

Sorry to hear about such mishap! Hope it's not too late!
What are you treating with if any?
What are your pH of tap and tank water?
IMO, such drastic change of water maybe more stressful on already very stressed out fish unless test results indicate nitrite (NO2) and possibly NH3 (depends on pH) at unacceptable level.

Lyrae

She passed away this morning.

As to the answers for the above questions.

I asked my fiance how much she had been feeding the fish and she said she wasn't really eating anything. The pellets in the first picture were removed. I had several in there to see if she would eat any at all. It is still possible that she was foraging after lights out in the tank and that could be why she was bloated from before.

The pH is 7.2 in her tank and the pH that comes out of the faucet is 8.8. I had no idea it was that high. I've only ever tested my tanks and assumed the difference was going to be minor.

I am thinking i may have done her in accidently with larger water changes with a pH that high and I feel terrible. What makes us both unhappy with our fish store is the fact that we live in boston and drive 45-60 minutes out to framingham because everyone there is really knowlegable about fish. We talked to a fish clerk for 20 minutes about the blue rams asking him about stuff we have read online. About their need for a well planted tank matured tank with lots of hiding spots and slow moving tank mates, their sensitivity. He told us he used to breed blue rams and that everyone overexagerates their delicatness. They'd be fine with the zebra danios we have and the plants and cave we have.

When we brought a water sample back, another clerk told us that the pH was too high and the general hardness was too high and these fish don't survive for long in those conditions.

Since my fiance *really* liked that fish, i suppose we ought to start looking into our own RO unit to avoid future calamaties.

Thank you folks for your input.

agabr123

i'm sorry you lost her

do you have driftwood in the tanks? that seems like a really massive difference to just be coincidental.

cerianthus

Unfortunately it happened.

I am bit curious though.
Wondering if fish showed such symptoms at pH of 7.2 before the water changes or after big water changes?
I believe if well acclimated to 7.2 water, it shouldve been OK unless fish showed symptoms after big water changes.

If the fish were not doing well before the water changes, it may have been the fish rather than your water provided tank pH was at pH of 7.2 to begin with.
I do not know how lfs keeps their pH but next time you can ask for sample of their water and do pH test (if you want NH3, NO2) using your own test kit before the purchase. Thus could decide wether your water is pretty close to lfs store and they can not use same excuse iftheir water is close to yours.

You dont need to buy RO , IMO, unless going for truly very sensitive fish such as Crenicara filamentosa, Discus, etc. etc.. If you can maitain pH of 7.2, I think most fish can tolerate/acclimate to such pH. Just do smaller water changes more often in order avoid extreme Ph fluctuation since tap is 8.8

Although I agree fish can adapt wider range of pH but avoiding extreme pH is recommended, especially when fish are move from one tank to another. Wether fish can adpat to extreme pH, onc should/can try after fish has been well adjusted to new tank with pH of acceptable level. But Why?

When you are at lfs, stand in front of GBR tank for while and just watch. You should be able to pick out few paired off GBR. They will constantly chase others away trying to protect small, tiny area (team work). Use this indication as healthy pair and probably will even spawn in your tank w/i short period of time provided that they are well conditioned at lfs (Actually small changes in water parameter can be a stimulus to initiate spawning as it happens in nature).

Hope this helped a bit and wish you better outcome next time.

Lucy

I'm really sorry you lost the little guy, they're beautiful fish.

Lyrae

Well, what happened is that we were looking at the fish in her 14G tank. She had what appeared to be a small sore/ulcer on her body near her tailfin. The next day i was looking at her and it appeared me to as if the sore was larger. Also it looked like there was a new one near her gill cover that i hadn't seen before. So i thought that she must be sick with something bacterial.

I have a 5 gallon hospitol/Quarentine tank. There are 3 guppies in there that just look completely ragged, so we opted to just put her right in her new home as we trusted this fish store (in fact i have yet to see a dead fish in their tanks). So when it looked like these sores on her body were growing and not healing, we put in her in the hospitol tank.

The pH of all our tanks are very close to 7.2 and neither the Q tank, nor the fishes home tank had driftwood in it.

Once in the hospitol tank, which i had been treating with Maracyn and Maracyn2, she rapidly deteriorated and we found her dead yesterday morning.

I'm really starting to think there is something messed up with my hospitol tank because i have 3 female guppies in there and they look "rough". Two of them are 3 months old (born in my 14G tank) and their tails are just falling apart and nothing i'm doing is working. The third is an adult and her fins are fine for now, but she also looks "rough" and all three of them look like they haven't eaten.

Every time i feed them (twice a day) they eat voraciously. One of the younger ones has this white stringy pooh that just hangs out of her so i'm thinking that its an internal parasite. However, i've treated with Jungle Buddies Paracite Clear twice now and i can repeat the dosage tomorrow, but i'm really starting to lose hope.

There are 2 other 3 month old females in my fiances 10G and they look fantastic. good colour, good size, active, healthy looking.

I'm afraid i may have to sterilize my hospitol tank when these fish die.

cerianthus

Since Q/t only has guppies and Im assuming that water still has residue of Maracyn and Maracyn II, how about few small water changes (and/or new carbon if and when possible). Just add 1 tbs of Aq salt after few water changes. Provided pH, ammonia (NH3), Nitrite (NO2) are OK then dose with just Maracyn.
I dont see a reason when one mixes two different types of antibiotics not knowing wether they will react with each other (Not saying it will). I would always use one remedy which will closely suit fish's symptoms then give time before trying another since exact diagnose of fish disease is pretty much impossible with our apparatus.

I dont know your husbandary technique on tank but do keep in mind that q/t water may/can deteriorate fast. When you find yourself in need of emergency water changes, use the water form main tank provided main tank is at its optimal conditions rather than tap water in massive volume, if possible.