Kivstev

Hello All.

I've been lurking here awhile and have picked up lots of knowledge, but now I need some advice:

Here are my details:

55 Gallon Tank
ammonia and nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10
pH: 7.5
Temp: 74F
Feeding fish OmegaOne tropical flakes.
Tank mates: A dozen feeder sized Convicts that I had planned on removing (one way or the other shortly.)

I picked up 4 Boesmani Rainbows and 2 Kribs from a very reputable dealer for my 55G. I noticed that one of the Rainbows was not doing well within hours of getting him home, so I put him in the 10G hospital tank along with some Melafix. I also raised the temp to 80 degrees. Within 12 hours he was dead.

I now know he had all the signs of Columnaris - cotton mouth and rapid breathing, patches of white on his nose, refusing to eat. I suppose this could be fungal, but the deterioration of the fish was very fast.

Now my remaining Rainbows seem to be developing redness around the gill area as the lone symptom. (I have attached an admittedly poor quality pic, but it's the color that's important.) Maybe the redness was there before, but I do not believe so and I do not believe this is typical of a healthy Boesmani. I have also read that Columnaris will show itself during times of stress ie: a move to a new tank.

I have added Melafix to the 55G tank and an hour ago poured in 5 packets of API T.C. Tetracycline on the hunch that it is indeed a bacterial infection. The store recommended that I add salt, but at some point I plan on adding some Plecos and from what I know they do not do well with salt. I plan on dosing them again in 24 hours.

My question is whether I am doing the right thing and if there are some other treatments I should be doing. Thanks for any advice, shared experience or other opinions with this.

Attached Images

red gill.jpg (37.1 KB, 30 views)

agabr123

hi and welcome to fishlore

the redness is usually a sign of ammonia poisoning or lack of oxygen. i'd do your ammonia test again and add an air stone or bubble wand to rule that out.

here's some more info on columnaris and how to go about treating
Columnaris.... need a little advice
http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=917
http://network.bestfriends.org/frien...news/5401.html

Kivstev

Yes I have repeatedly tested for ammonia and nitrite and am certain there is none. The store I bought the fish from confirmed I have good numbers. 10 minutes ago I did add a bubble wand. Thanks for the reply and the links.

agabr123

way ahead of me then i hope they help! if your fish starts showing anymore symptoms don't hesitate to post!

Kivstev

I will, thanks. Those links you posted... mega loads of info...links leading to more great links on this. Almost too much for my pea sized noggin. Big thanks.

I decided to go with aquarium salt as well after reading those links. Must conquer one problem at a time. This 'flex' is a serious problem it seems. Can't mess around. Deadly stuff.

Assuming this is indeed Columnaris, my choices are:
1. Trying to find and treat with Kanamycin.
2. Stay with the tetracycline and get some Maracin2 to go along with it.
3. Take my fish back and take up another hobby.

I'm going to go with the 2nd option I think.

The only spare tank I have at the moment is a 10 Gallon, but it was used for the fish that died so I am hesitant to use that as a hospital tank at the moment. This is considering that 3 Rainbows and two Kribs would most likely not do well in that space for any amount of time. Opinions?

Thanks for all contributions to this. This is very frustrating to say the least.

capekate

Since that is all you have in your 55 at the moment and possibly have infected all the fish, IMO I would keep them in there and treat the whole tank.
All your numbers sound great and looking at the color around the gill and seeing that its not exactly inside the gill opening where ammonia poisoning would show up in, I also doubt that they are sick from ammonia poisoning.
I understood the need to turn up the heat in the 10g tank for the sick fish, but these boe's do not do well in higher temps at all, as you already know.
I really hope they make a turn around for you, I also had boesmani at one time and they were very hard to keep alive for some reason, of course that was before I knew my water temp was too high for them.
Best of luck.. And welcome to fishlore!

Kivstev

Thanks - I and the fish need some luck I think.. Not to mention that is seems that the Flex infection (columnaris) is known to thrive in higher water temps around 80 degrees. 74 is a good medium from all the research I've done. I'm now dosing the tetracycline with Maracyn2 in the main tank which 'should' cover all the bases.

Kivstev

I was wondering... Could this condition possibly be Gill Flukes? I believe that the most common symptom is inflamed gills, but along with some darting/scratching behavior. My fish do not have the latter, though. I've seen a couple pics online and they look somewhat similar.

capekate

Are you really sure your rainbows are sick? I know that my rainbows have a natural coloring of redish around the gills and it is not a indication of any illness, just the way they are colored. Its hard to say if your guys have gill flukes or not, as we would need a much better photo to help ID the problem. I always hate to advise on meds unless you are really sure your guys are sick. I would stay the course with the meds you started. I believe they are usually a five treatment procedure. You started the API tetracycline on tuesday, and then dosed with Tetracycline and maracyn2 yesterday. I would recommend staying with one med and follow the directions on how long to use it and give it time to work.. you may not see any improvements in two days. Best of luck with them ...

Kivstev

I was 85% sure they all were sick since the first one had the cotton mouth and died They developed the red gills a day later. Also, the fish where I got them had no red gills like this.

Now, I am 100% sure because one of them is getting the cotton on his nose. I've decided to take them back since I can't treat them, apparently.

The only question now is what to do with the 55 gallon tank. Take it down and start from scratch for just watch in for a couple weeks. There are two Kribs still in there and I'm fairly certain this is Flex with a secondary gill infection. Thanks for the help and any opinions on this.

Attached Images

	807d2f4f9ebf.jpg (16.4 KB, 14 views)
	b6ea8eda1cb3.jpg (14.0 KB, 14 views)

agabr123

poor guys i'm sorry i don't have any more advice for you. how are your kribs doing?

Kivstev

Kribs are fine, thanks. The only thing is that their poo is about twice the length that they are. I know parasites are usually white, and that long and brown usually means stress or overfeading. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I put them in a 10 gallon tank until I can figure out what to do with the main tank. I'll probably just replace all the water - but am still unsure whether I should boil it up and kill all bacteria, good and bad. There have been no spikes in Ammonia or Nitrite since I started the medication and I would hate to have to recycle it unless it's needed.

agabr123

parasites would show as white, stringy poo so that doesn't sound like parasites to me.

if your 10 gallon is cycled and they can stay in there it may be worth it to boil everything and kill whatever may have infected your other fish.

Kivstev

Through lots of research I've learned that one of the first symptoms of Columnaris is redness of the gills. Some of the most virulent strains attack there first. I've also read that Boesemani's are well known for the Flex.

As for the tank... I'm treating it with Maracyn2 for two more days and will treat the Kribs as well in the 10 Gallon. Hopefully this will wipe out everything and I can start over - just a little bit smarter this time.

Lessons Learned That I Really Knew But Did Not Follow. (Gambled and Lost).

1. Never buy fish when there is another dead fish in the tank.
2. Always segregate the newbies for at least a week. Maybe more.

Time to move on. Thanks!

Kivstev

Bad news from the hospital tank today. The male Krib has the cotton like fibre coming out of his mouth. The LFS says that ' there is something incompatible between our tanks and your tanks'. haha.

Here is another good one. They put the Boesmani with the red gills (that I returned) back into their tanks under my objection!!! That means that it will be very possible that whomever buys those fish or other fish in that tank... well you know.

I called and spoke with the manager and he thought the disease was just some fungus that should be treated with some anti-fungal. He told me that if the Kribs have it - then it is my tank. I'm very p*ssed off right now at the ignorance of a very well known Tropical Fish store here in MA. I suggested they go look up Flex and Columnaris and to shut down that tank with the fish that are still for sale in it!!!

agabr123

i'm with you, it's probably either flex or columnaris. i can't believe they'd put your fish right back into a tank with all those other fish, and that's probably on a central filtration system.