daniella

Hi everyone,

I have a discus that is breathing very fast (twice as fast as the others) from only one gill. It started 2 days ago. On the first day he was breathing from the right gill keeping the left one shut and then today he's doing the opposite and breathing from the left one keeping the right one shut.

The fish are in a cycling tank but I monitored the water very carefully, adding Prime when ever there was a trace of ammonia. Did from 15% to 40% water change daily adding Prime each time.

Ammonia never went higher than .1, so it was basically from 0 to .1 but mostly at 0 and with Prime in the tank each day. Should control everything even if the API test kit show trace of ammonia no?

Today ammonia is at 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate 5.

At the petshop, the discus were sometime scratching on objects. They did this a bit too on my tank, from time to time, scratching gills on plants. Not often but a few times a day maybe, and this is why I suspected gill flukes.

So my question is, could the tiny amount of ammonia present in the water be enough to burn my fish gill? and why has it change breathing from the left gill only to breath from the right one only? If at begining the left gill was irritated, then why is he now using that one to breath with?

Also if it is ammonia burn, then why no other have symptoms? Even my 2 small young discus are doing great and since they are young, they should be affected first since they are more fragile...so all this point me to the gill flukes, but how do I confirm this or gill burn?

Should I treat for gill flukes anyway? I have ordered Discus Wormer Plus from the UK but that should not arrive until a week at least I guess.

What safe medecine should I use with a planted thank and discus? The one that is breathing fast is medium size, not adult yet but not young either.

I have wood shrimps so I will have to remove them but wish not to remove the plants.

aquarist48

I'm sure one of the Discus keepers will see this shortly...sounds like gill flukes to me though. Metronidazole is for parasitic and bacterial treatment.

capekate

Discus are very very sensitive to water conditions and one of the least to put into a tank that is not cycled yet. They need to be put into established tanks.
Im sorry your little one is not doing well, but he may be suffering effects of the uncycled tank.. Even a tiny bit of ammonia is not good for them and hopefully he will bounce back now that your ammonia is at zero.

AlyeskaGirl

I don't know much about Discus but I do know they are very sensitive to water quality, I was surprised to see you have them in a tank that is cycling. But they are probly way better off with you getting the proper care or you are trying to since they were doing that at the store as well. I hope everything goes well.

daniella

Ammonia has been to 0 most of the time. When it was higher it never stayed that way very long because I put Prime each day and Prime has a 24 hours efficiency period. So it should have taken care of the ammonia, making it non toxic, so I think.

I knew they had something from the store because I did see a few of these discus scratch on plants and objects. I am guessing that the stress from a new tank and a cyclying one, probably made the gill flukes overcome the fish due to it being stressed? not sure.

I am wondering if there is a way to be sure if it is fluke or something else for now?

anyway to tell beside scraping and doing a microscope exam?

capekate

It could be ICH from the store where you bought them. What temperature do you have the tank set at? Im very surprised that a shop keeper sold Discus for an uncycled tank, was he aware your tank was uncycled? Even in the most pristine water conditions Discus are very fragile to any water problems. They are expensive fish, and I sure hope that yours do well for you under the conditions.
EDIT: looking at your aquarium info, I see you have the temp at 30C (86*F) so that is good.. and a higher temp would kill off the ICH if that is what is going on...

Shawnie

even little amounts of ammonia can hurt and as others have said, discus seem to do better in tanks that have been established with 0 - 0 - under 20 for sometime (established for a couple months at least) many dont have luck as beginner tank mates when the tank is still in the process of cycling....I Hope he does well and keeping his water prestine will do wonders...maybe a few drops of fresh garlic juice will help him feel better and stimulate his appetite...goodluck!

EDIT: wouldnt 86 be way too high and maybe its an oxygen issue as well?(less oxygen in warmer waters)

capekate

86* is good for Discus, they love the higher temps. But I agree, you need good aeration when you have your temp that high. Im not sure about the fresh garlic juice tho...

Shawnie

wow thats really high..now I know why they intimidate me LOL .......those sensitive things!! but absolutely beautious!....and deffinately some bubble wands needed im sure ...I certainly hope things look up!

daniella

Sure he was aware and he said it was fine as long as I kept the water good.

I doubt it is ich. No white spot what so ever and the temperature is 30C - 86F. I never heard of discus getting ich before but I know most have gill flukes to some extend. Most discus keeper worm their fishes on regular basis since it is very hard to completely eliminate flukes.

One of them had a damaged tail fin edge with white around the edge when I got him, now everything has healed completely, so I guess the water is not all that bad.

Do you have or had discus before?

They are expensive yes but most of those that I got were 29$ each (4 of them) and the biggest pigeon blood was 45$.

I don't want to lose any but if I do, then such is life.

For now the fast breathing fish eats like a pig. He's got a large full belly and still want to gobble up those frozen blood worm. He really does not act like a sick fish and he's bullying the smaller one around at feeding time. I don't know what to do to stop him from eating that much without having to deprive the others of food.

He's now breathing from both gills but still fast and ammonia is at 0, as well as nitrite at 0, nitrates at 5.

I am worried of using medication. I trust Discus Wormer Plus because many discus owners use this stuff on regular basis, like once a month without any bad effect but I have read that using prazi with discus can be risky. Often the fishes stop to eat.

daniella

I do have an air pump with a 6" long ceramic, and my filter pushes the flow toward the water surface so there is some surface movement.

All other fishes are doing fine, eating well and are quite active, swimming around, chasing each other on occasion, hunting for food through the plants etc..they are not letargic. I was actualy surprised at how active they were since I always see discus very placid and not moving much when I see them in stores.

But I doubt he can keep up that level of fast breathing very long. Each day I return from work expecting to see him dead floating on the water but he hangs on. Can't beleive his appetite for a sick fish!!!!

I do water change each day. I have a python and use Prime in the tank before I pour the water in the aquarium and I pour it extremely slowly. I do not adjust any pH or hardness as I do not wish to play with this. there is peatmoss in the filter to soften the water and PH is stable at 7.2. It was the same PH at the store since same water.

The water is crystal clear too, not cloudy or anything. Loads of plants in it as well.

capekate

Hi Daniella,
Yes I have kept Discus for a few years. Lost a few in the beginning from not being from good stock, stunted little fellows. Lost two due to aggression and stress.Sometimes they just do not get along with each other. I was down to two and lost one after two years old he got scared and flashed around the tank and knocked itself out and never recovered and I have the last one in its own 29g tank right now. He is about 2.5 yrs old now and is very happy to be the only fish in the tank. I have never wormed my Discus, and they never were infected with worms tho.
best of luck with yours.. they are very beautiful fish.

daniella

wow, I think it could be the water change

I did a 50% water change today and right after the water change the smaller discus started to do the same thing, rapid breathing from only one gill!

Strange coincidence that both fish started doing this right after a water change but since I change water daily I did not make the connection.

Now I do my water change with a python and pour it very very slowly in the aquarium. I put double dose of Prime before I put the water in. It's water directly from tap and at the right temperature. I know many many people do this and they don't have any trouble but could it be that Prime does not remove that chlorine fast enough and it is burning my fish gills?

Also the one that started this fast breathing is still alive and he's alternating side for breathing each day. one day from the right side and the other day from the left. After this water change he look worse though. He has turned very dark and keep breathing fast in a corner. This water change method does not seem very safe, as opposed to what I was told.

I did a water change this morning because I want to start a Prazipro cure, thinking it was flukes but now I am not so sure if it is not gill burn from the chlorine. Ammonia and nitrite at 0.

capekate

Hi Daniella
I know the predicament you are in, with needing to do the water changes due to the uncycled tank, but maybe even cutting back the daily amount may help if the changes seem to be affecting the fish?
If ammonia poisoning burn was the problem wouldnt you notice some red around the gills and possible red streaking on the body? Have you tested the water right out of the tap? Not sure if you addressed this in any of the above posts?

daniella

I don't know if ammonia burn or chlorine burn is apparent to such small extend where it affect the gill? Might be that it affect the gill far more seriously than the body so only a small amount will burn the gills but not show any other signs on the body?

Anyway all the others are doing fine. After the water change the small one started doing the same thing but that only lasted like 10 minutes and now he's breathing just fine.

The affected fish is still breathing fast but somehow it seem to be improving a bit, maybe I am dreaming? Today I did 50% water change and added Prazipro to the tank. At first the fishes went to hide, got really dark but soon they all came out and all eated like pigs

The one breathing fast still has a great appetite, even with the prazi med in the tank and I read that prazi cut fish appetite...not so with mine.

So good so far, I will wait and see if the medicine works for the fast breathing discus. He's been doing this for 3 days now, each day changing the side of the gill for breathing. Wierd no?

The fish body is perfect, great fins, great colors, not dark and no stress bars. He seems completly healthy other than the fast breathing.

Prazi also treat internal worms like tapeworms and flukes, so I will see.

Amazing what Prazi does to the air bubble from the air stone! makes them really small and seems to multiply them by a thousand.

daniella

Ok a little follow up here. Only a few hours (2 maybe) after Prazipro my affected fish started breathing normaly from both gills. I guess it was flukes after all.

Prazi does not seem to kill snails as they are still being active.

Fishes are twitching, shaking from time to time and scratching on plants. It seems that the flukes are getting very uncomfortable!

I saw him spit something that looked like a little white clouds of fine nearly transparent particles (dead flukes?) and it seems this was coming from his gills and out of his mouth. I guess he had lots of flukes! After that spitting he started breathing a little faster but that lasted only a minute or so.

Prazi costed me 27$ for a 4oz bottle but it works. I will keep this for 3 days and then do a 50% water change and repeat the dose and let it be for another 4 days. I guess that will take care of the fluke eggs hatching.

capekate

Glad to hear the medicine is doing the trick! Hope they all bounce back quickly for you.

daniella

The fishes are doing great. Great color, not dark. All eating although there is a bit of spitting out of food but I was expecting this with the Prazi med. they still eat everything though but they eat a bit less. I can see they are all eating well because of the poop coming out after they eat. I don't think they poop if they don't eat. At least I never saw poop when I was not feeding them.

Snails are all alive and doing well, but I removed the 2 wood shrimps just to be safe. I read that sprimp will survive the treatment but I did not want to take that chance. I really like these little shrimps.

There is still some shaking, coughing (shaking of gills?) and flaring going on but less and less. Breathing have slowed down for all fishes so I gess they were all affected by the flukes to some degree and were breathing faster then needed. Discus breathing is supposed to be about 1 per second, they are a bit faster than that but now it's pretty close to that.

It's amazing to see how quickly Prazi kill the flukes but yet does not affect the snails.

discus75

Hi there, just went through your post about fish breathing heavy. Im having the same problem and my discus are also scraping on oniments and darting. So mine must have gill flukes too. Has the medication u used cured the flukes? im going to get the same medication 2morrow just wondering about the doseage i have a 90 gal tank with 10 Discus. I have tested my water and everything is fine.