Lindsay

Hello. I am very concerned about my fish. He has recently moved tanks, about 3 days ago but he is having lots of strange behaviour. I waited 6 days before putting him in the new tank and supossedly this was long enough. He is a panaqua fish. He is pooping an abnormal amount and is not moving very much, stays in the same spot. He has no appetite, so the medication that I have tried to give him he doesn't touch. His poop, even though it is lessening now, was brown and orange in colour. Please advise me as to what I should do. Thank you.

sirdarksol

The "waiting six days" suggests that you may not have cycled the tank. Did you move all of the filter media from the old tank into the new?
Is the temperature the same as the old tank? Are all of the other water qualities pretty close to the same? A sudden change in pH, hardness, or even a sudden (huge) drop in nitrates can stress a fish out.

Lindsay

Unfortunately I had to separate him from other fish, meaning all the filter equipment had to stay with the other fish. The temperature is the same as the old tank. And in terms of water qualities - I know that this sounds strange, but I wouldn't know how to go about checking this information. I do not know a lot about how a fish tank works as the old fish tank was set up by a previous owner. If you could please tell me how I would go about finding more information about this and how I can make it better, please let me know. Thank you.

There are also strange like long string things coming out of his fins. I just noticed this. Please help!

Lucy

Hi Lindsey welcome to Fish Lore.

In order to test your water, you would need to buy a test kit. The API master kit is a liquid and very reliable. Try and avoid buying the strips, they're inaccurate.

I've googled panaqua fish and didn't come up with anything.
Is it possible to post a pic? It might help the members identify what's wrong with your fish.
External parasites come to mind.

sirdarksol

Ah. Got it.

First thing, let's talk about the nitrogen cycle. This article will talk about the subject at length. I'll give the short version.
The nitrogen cycle is the process that turns fish waste from ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. Ammonia is extremely toxic, nitrite is less toxic, but still pretty bad, nitrate is only toxic in large amounts. Bacteria are the things that cause this change, and they need time to grow.

So it's likely that, in addition to anything else that might be happening, ammonia is building up in that tank. Presumably you've got a filter on each tank. Look in the filter for the "old" tank (the one that doesn't have the fish in question in it). There should be a few different pieces of "media" (sponges, bags of carbon, something of the sort). If there is more than one such thing, take one of them out and replace it with fresh (you likely have extra bags of carbon, so that might be the easiest to replace), and put the used media in new tank's filter. Even if it doesn't fit in the normal manner, find a way to get it (or even part of it, if you've got to cut it up) to fit in there.
This will load the filter with a bunch of the nitrifying bacteria (which like to cling to surfaces like the sponges in the filter), and put the tank well on its way to completing the cycle.

As far as checking water chemistry, this one requires a bit of an expenditure. An API Master Test Kit will come with tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, which are the biggest things to test for.
pH simply needs to be stable. Fish can adjust to a wide range of pH.
Ammonia and nitrite both should be at zero.
Nitrate should be no higher than 20, preferably 10 or less.

Sorry, I just noticed that your profile says "saltwater." If this is a saltwater tank, you'll also want a device to measure salinity, and I think there are a few other tests that are needed for SW (though I'm not positive). If this is a SW tank, hopefully one of the SW folks will be around soon to check my info.

Lastly, what are the fish getting to eat? High quality food can help fish survive illness and parasites long enough for you to be able to treat them.

I sometimes have problems typing clearly, so please feel free to ask for clarification. I'll be leaving pretty soon, but someone (who may be ninja'ing my post as I type) will likely be around to pick up where I left off.

Lucy

SDS but you were much more thorough than I. lol

If this is a SW tank, I'd like to move it to that section where our salty members will see it.

Lindsay

I'm sorry I made a mistake. It's actually freshwater. Sorry for that. I think it will make it pretty difficult to go back to the old tank for various personal reasons (don't ask). This whole moving process has been difficult for both me and the fish. :-S Anyway, I read that it would be good if I clear out all the water that's currently in there and give him fresh water. Also the gravel should be out as well. What do you think? And in terms of the testing kit, I will look into this. I was thinking of having a professional come by and look at him. I am currently living in a city where I don't speak the language very well so it might be best to do it this way. If you could let me know how I can get the process going myself, like filling fresh water or whatever, please tell me. Thanks. And yes I will post a picture for you to see what exactly I'm dealing with. Thanks.

Lindsay

Lucy

Oh, he's a beautiful fish.

Can't really see things hanging from his fins though.
Read up on the link SDS provided, it's possible he's feeling the effects of a cycling tank.

sirdarksol

Okay, it appears that you've got a pleco of sorts.
Daily partial water changes are the best way to keep a fish alive through the cycle. I think I've heard people say that about 25% of the water every day is pretty good. Be sure to be using dechlorinator (presuming your water supply is chlorinated, as most are) when you do water changes. If you've got a garden, the water from the water changes can be used to water it, and it adds fertilizers, as well.

I need to leave now. If you need help with what a partial water change is, Lucy should be able to help you.

Hopefully someone will be able to ID the pleco more thoroughly and let us know if it's an herbivore or a carnivore, as its diet will be extremely important (I'm wondering if it might be lacking proper food.)

Good luck with everything, keep us updated. We've helped a lot of people through a lot of problems (heck, I had a whole tank that was in a state of disaster when I started here a few years ago), and we'll do our best to help you through this. You caught the issue early, so I think your pleco probably has a pretty good chance.

pinkfloydpuffer

That's what I suspected when I saw panaqua... it's actually a panaque pleco.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog...enus_id=27#126
He needs driftwood to chew on and he's mainly a vegetarian.

Plecos aren't the most hardy fish when it comes to cycling, so it's a good bet that is at least contributing if not the whole problem altogether.

Lindsay

Oh this picture isn't my fish. Just looks like him :-)

pinkfloydpuffer

I'm thinking either this one:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog...pecies_id=1304
or this one:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog...pecies_id=1825]
or this one:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog...?image_id=3323

Lucy

Thank for the ID PFP.

How many gallons is your tank?
It would be a good idea to start daily water changes and using Prime to detoxify the ammonia created by his waste and left over food until the tank is cycled.
In a cycled tank the readings will be 0 for ammonia, 0 nitrites with some nitrates (5-10).

Lindsay

Forgot to tell you what I feed him. I only feed him once a week - mainly slices of carrot or zucchini and algae wafers. I've just changed the water and put dechlorinator in, will let you know what happens. Thanks for the advice :-)

Lucy

Fish can go for a few days with out food, but a week is too long.

Keep us posted

Edit: sorry, I can't see the picture. I can only see a red x

Lindsay

Yeah don't know why. But he's in the 2nd link of those pictures - first picture in the 2nd link.

pinkfloydpuffer

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/ca...royalpleco.htm
Here's some more info on the Panaque nigrolineatus

Lindsay

Great, thanks for that. :-) I've always fed him once a week and that's what the store owner told me to do.

pinkfloydpuffer

Panaques are pretty tricky fish... do you have driftwood for him to chew on? How big of a tank is he in? They get pretty big.

http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/pan_nig.html

Lindsay

Yes I do have driftwood. And in terms of the tank size, I am very close to the recommended amount. So I think it's ok. He's on the smaller side. When do they stop growing? I believe he's about 2 years old now.

cerianthus

As other members have mentioned, should invest in test kit for pH, ammonia, nitrite at least.
Test water daily if possible. Do partial water changes as needed according to test result (trying keep ammonia and nitrite level low, not zero) until tank is "cycled" (6-8 weeks).
When performing partial water changes with tap, should add dechlorinator to tap water in the container (bucket) and mix or swirl before addding to tank. DO NOT (NEVER) add tap to tank then add dechlirinator to tank.
It's beautiful Panaque.
Do not leave zucchini in the tank too long which will foul up your tank water. Usually replace them after 2 days, not more. You can use ALGAE WAFER at night time if Panaque enjoys as well as Zucchini. I've also done romaine lettuce at night time with grreat success but does leave bits of leaves floating. Can be removed usuing nets.
When they dine well, they produce good amount of wastes which should be removed using Gravel Vaccuum when performing partial water changes.

Lindsay

Ok, thanks for the advice. I kind of didn't realize that I should mix the dechlirinator in a bucket with water before putting it in the tank. No one told me this!! What will happen since I did?

Also, the medication I am feeding him, he doesn't seem to want to eat. What should I do about this? Also the poop that is coming out of him seem to be getting much longer and stringy. What does this mean?

I will look into getting a testing kit.

Thanks again.

Lindsay

Is spasming normal? He seems to have them at times. :-( So his mouth twitches which then causes his heart to beat really fast.

Lucy

I've added tap water to my tank with out adding dechlorinator and immediately remembered and added it quickly with no ill effect.
There was thread about that recently where several other members confessed to doing this also.

However, as cerianthus points out, it's best to add the conditioner first before adding it to the tank. I'd also agree with him on the water changes until we know what your readings are.

Long stringy white poo can be a sign of internal parasites, but I have learned from this site and a pic someone posted that plecos have unusually long poo.

cerianthus

As long as poop is green to dark green (from green food) and stringy, It is absolutely normal. If one keep dozen plecos with good feeding, everyone should be surprised of how much waste they will produce. I even joked w/ other hobbyist that they are not Sanitation Crew, they produce more waste than other fish.

If Med food does not work, Stop all medication. Just monitor the water for
NH3, NO2, ph and external symptoms if any and changes in their behavior.
Remember, Panaque are more active at night. Having driftwood help the fish w/ digestions. Vegetations are not easy to digest, if at all.
Let us know as to what's going on with fish. Sooner you act, better chance it will have provided correct diagnosis was made.

sirdarksol

I do this all the time (I use a Python). It takes a long time for the tiny amount of chlorine in tap water to actually injure the fish, and dechlorinator works nigh instantly.

Lindsay

He actually isn't pooing out long white strings of poo - it's dark brown in colour.

And in terms of the medication, I've been told to keep on giving it to him and take out the driftwood. I've phoned a fish store owner and this is what he's told me to do. I don't who to believe? Anyway still quite inactive but he does have sudden bursts of movements.

Anyway this is what I've been told. I will continue to make 20% new water changes daily though. We told the store owner his symptoms and he advised that he take this medication and it will work in 9 days.

Lindsay

This is what I've read in my research on panaques:

"Wood should obviously be in constant supply in the Panaque aquarium, but experiments in labs have suggested that the efficiency of wood digestion depends to some extent on water quality. If the nitrates are too high, these catfish can’t digest the wood properly, and slowly starve if given nothing else to eat. Possibly the nitrates interfere with the metabolism of the microorganisms in the catfish’s gut. Regardless, this does underline the fact that large and regular water changes are essential."

Now seeing as I don't have a testing kit at this moment, would the nitrates be high if I have just recently changed the water? This might be an easier indication as to whether I took the wood out was a good idea.

sirdarksol

It's possible. I've had extremely high nitrates after a 30% water change (something had gone wrong in that tank, and the nitrates were unbelievably high before the water change).
Extra partial water changes won't hurt anything, so go ahead and keep doing extra changes.

As far as what the fish store owner told you to do, I can't answer to that directly, but I can tell you that a lot of folks around here have been given absolutely horrible advice by the local fish store owners.
Do you have access to a "med" called PimaFix or MelaFix? They're herbal supplements that tend to be less stressful than normal meds. Not sure where you are, and not sure if they're available, but if they are, they're effective anti-fungal and anti-bacterial agents (sorry if I'm repeating myself here).