owndcheif

OK, i work at a petsmart and in short... a few of the fish aren't doing so well. the fish in question are the majority of our, Oscars, Blood Parrots, and a couple turquoise sevrums. they all appear to have HLLE (Hole-in-Head and Lateral Line Erosion) our water parameters are 0 amonnia, 0 nitrite, 20 nitrate, and a pH of about 7.8. the odd part is that when we take them out of the display tanks and put them in our sick tanks, without changing anything but the area they're in they get better(it is different water but it has the exact same parameters). i'm wondering why this is? in an effort to quel this epidemic we have started feeding them better food (cichlid gold and a mixture of brine shrimp, blood worms, and something called "emerald entree" it has krill and some sort of vegetable matter in it) but it is not working as of yet. please help!

Shawnie

were you feeding them feeders before? and what kind of test kit are you using?

owndcheif

these are smaller fishes so the only ones getting feeders were the oscars, and even then it was not supposed to be the main part of their diet(I am not there all the time so other employees might overfeed them). unfortunately we use "jungle 6-in-1 quick dip test strips" and " jungle ammonia quick dip test strips", i would prefer to use the master test kit we sell but not everyone is as competent as me.

Shawnie

so maybe the water perms arent as good as they should be ? the dips arent as reliable as you know..so between keeping prestine water and feeding them all the new stuff you are now, and NO feeders, they should heal well.....goodluck!

Fishies-for-me

Hmm I have heard a theory that carbon in the filter can cause hole in the head disease...do both of the tanks have carbon in the filters ( I am thinking not in the QT area as it would suck out the meds they use.)...not sure if this is the reason but it gives you something to look into....good luck.

Alessa

Maybe your readings are not accurate (stripes). I would first try to get a test out of the Master test Kit.

owndcheif

i will try to get them to use the master test kit but that is unlikely to happen b/c we get most of our supplies sent to us by head office so we don't get to have much say on a store to store basis. also oddly enough all of our tanks have carbon in the filters, but there was an incident where the people who set up the main system (a 1700 gallon system that carries water for almost all our fish) they forgot to rinse the carbon... you can all bet how delighted our staff was to find this out upon coming to work the next day. so after many hours of water changes and scrubbing and washing gravel they got most of the carbon dust out, but there is still alot of residual carbon dust in the system (this happened when the store opened and it is now about 8 months after that) i know this because every time we go to rinse the industrial sized pad that is supposed to scrub bubbles from the water the water runs off of it pitch black. if there are any grounds for believing that carbon could be doing this, i would be inclined to believe it, and be stupefied on how to remedy the situation.

Shawnie

the only way I think carbon might have an affect is that if it was making the water parimeters bad from leaking stuff back into the tank...carbon is only good for so long and can only absorb so much before it leaks the stuff back in...I have carbon in my oscar tank but I change it out every two weeks...I use it to help keep the ammonia down as im overstocked in my 75 gal...I think it was from their nutrition mainly but one never knows for sure...thats the biggest issue for HITH is bad feeders or lack of proper nutrition and other vitamins they need

Fishies-for-me

found this on wikipedia

There is much debate as to the cause of HLLE. Very little scientific research has been done on the topic, and most information available is anecdotal.

Removing carbon from the filter is a commonly suggested remedy for the disease. It is suggested that the carbon may either a.) add fine carbon particles to the water that irritate the skin, b.) leach phosphates and other potentially harmful chemicals into the water, or c.) remove minerals that are important to the health of the fish. Though there have been many reports of affected fish recovering after carbon has been removed, no studies have substantiated these theories, and most aquariums use carbon while still having healthy fish.

Many people believe that hexamita, a flagellated protozoan, is to blame. HLLE and hexamita infections are often seen in the same specimens.[3] However, HLLE can be found in many fish who do not have a hexamita infection, suggesting that a hexamita infection may cause stress or interfere with the absorption of vitamins and minerals causing malnutrition, which may be the actual cause of the disease. Hexamita may also be a secondary infection common in fish already weakened by HLLE.

Individual studies have shown that improvement in nutrition will help symptoms most effectively. Key vitamins in preventing or curing HLLE seem to be Vitamins A, C, and D. Adding these vitamins to the diet of affected fish usually leads to improvement, however, deficiencies in any of these vitamins do not always lead to HLLE, so nutrition is also questionable as a cause.

It has also been suggested that HLLE is an autoimmune disorder that is triggered by stress.[4] The disease does not appear to occur to fish in the wild, only those in captivity, supporting the idea that stress and unnatural living conditions are to blame. Anything that reduces stress appears to help in the prevention and recovery from this disease.


As I have been reading ..the carbon theory is unproven but also has not been disproved...another site I read states he believes that it is not the carbon itself that is the culprit as much as carbon dust. Other theorys figure that the carbon either absorbs things that the fish need leading to a deficiency or that the leach things back into the water causing the condition...now this is only a theory but I always like to look at all angles....good luck.