pepetj

Hi everyone. I'm really concerned, so I will give as much useful info as I can:
Tank is 40gal, 4footer.
Temp 29C, pH 7.6, ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates <10ppm, GH 12dH, KH 8dH. Sand-Gravel substrate, moderately-to-heavily planted, low tech, 0.9WPG.
Filtration AquaClear 70 + AquaClear 50 (with extra sponge, ceramic media, and the activated charcoal bags are both less than 1 week old).

History: Original stocking school of 7 Red Salmon Rainbowfish (2.5 to 3 inches) and one young Lake Kutubu Rainbowfish (1.5 inch). One female died suddenly, without any visible symptoms, except displaying erratic swimming; within 1 hour of first signs observed, in which she aligned her body vertically, she died in a breeders net with simulated shallow water (This happened in their temporay tank, a 29gal bow).

The remainder fish, 6 Red Salmon Rainbowfish and the Lake Kutubu Rainbowfish, were placed in their home, a species only tank, with two Apple Snails. Plants arranged in a way they have plenty of free swimming space.

One of the youngest Red Salmon Rainbowfis (likely male) showed strange colours when I got home. The rear half of his body looked incredibly pale, with no signs of abrassions in its body, he kept a lighter than usual red colouration in the other half, including the head. He was appart from the school. I decided to watch over this fish, as well as the others. When I noticed he dived to the bottom of the tank, upside down, I picked him up. He put no resistance, no attempt to escape at all. For the last hour I placed him in a breeder net inside the tank, turned lights off. I have noticed another Red Salmon is also presenting odd colouration and is isolated from the remains of the school, swimming near the surface.

I will try to describe the visible symptoms. The one in the breeder net is upside down, breathing heavily, his body is all pale -almost white, with dark -almost black areas, and if looked carefully it seems that the dark areas come from underskin regions -looks like internal hemorrage to me.

The other four fish, three Red Salmon -thankfully a female among them- and the Lake Kutubu are swimming all over, behaving as usual.

I would appreciate your comments and suggestion right away.

BTW I'm going out for the weekend, my elder sister, a very dedicated animal keeper -but with little experience in fishkeeping, will take care of my beloved animals, I wouldn't trust no other novice better than her.

I have a small quarantine/hospital tank that is housing three ghost shrimps, that I could move easily if required. I did maintenance in that tank at noon and water parameters are almost exactly as the 40gal tank.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

pepetj

Sorry to imform you all, the he died as I was writing to you. I'm really sad, you know.
The one that looked weird is now back swimming with everybody. I forgot to tell you that I installed a strong waterpump today (370 GPH) to create a stream in the tank. I turned it off since I had a sick fish in the breeder net, I won't turn it on until tomorrow, because I need to know if that (the strong current) had anything to do with this death. At least I need to rule that out. I read this particular rainbows liked strong currents, so I provided one.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

Alessa

Im really sorry pepe.

maybe he came home already sick? a water change couldnt hurt to protect the others.

pepetj

Sad Update: The odd looking male Red Salmon Rainbowfish, didn't make it through the night. I'm doing a water change as now. Same symptoms.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

pepetj

Did a 50% water change (maybe a little less than fifty, to be on the safe side). Remaining 5 fish seems to be striving.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

capekate

Hi Pepe
If I read your aquarium info correct, a 29C is 84.2F. That temperature is way too high for rainbows. I had similar problems with my own rainbows awhile back and talked it through with a experienced rainbow keeper in the UK. He told me that my temps were too high. You should turn that heat back slowly to about 78* and see if your guys perk up.
I hope the remainders are doing well... Good luck with them, they are such great fish!

pepetj

Thank you.
I have no heater since I live in the Caribbean, I guess I will get a chiller to see if it works (I saw a small one at one of the LFS). Thanks for the info, very valuable to me.

capekate

Your welcome Pepe
When my own red salmon rainbows did the same thing one by one I talked with a fishlore member who unfortunatly we do not see here much anymore, but he was experienced and also talked with other rainbow keepers about my problem which is the same symptoms your rainbows are showing.
It made a big difference in their color and perked them up when I lowered the temperature. The higher temps raise their metabolism to a much higher rate and it can weaken and stress them, as it happened to mine til I knew what was wrong.
I really hope that yours pull through and are doing much better.

pepetj

I'm away for the weekend, but so far I left the lights off, and see if on Monday that chiller is still available and will do the work for my tank. I'm looking for online options as well.

pepetj

Capekate, this info I read from "raibowfish home" on the Glossolepis Incisus, when planning the set up or their tank. I do believe the info you gave me is on target. I am not sure I will be able to cool the water until 78F, with a small chiller as the one likely available for Monday, I will be lucky to drop to 80F.

Habitat & Ecology
According to surveys in 1970-71, 1984 and 1987 the lake is thermally unstratified, with temperatures of 29-32� Celsius in the top 10 m. Surface pH is 6.2-6.8 and, on the basis of turbidity, plankton levels are low at 1-2 mg/L except in the westernmost basin, where circulation is limited, turbidity is doubled and seasonal algal blooms, with resultant fish mortality, have been reported. The rainbowfishes are generally found around the margins of the lake. Large numbers are found congregating around submerged aquatic vegetation, fallen tree branches etc.
source: http://members.optusnet.com.au/chelmon/Incisus.htm

As a matter of fact I am working in slowly bringing down the pH by softening the water, I added 5 gals of springwater purified by RO that is sold locally, during the last near 50% water change, based on this info.

Howere it is puzzling the contradictory information as for water parameters available for this particular rainbowfish.

I'll keep you posted.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

pepetj

Well things are not going well. Lost another Red-Salmon Rainbowfish this afternoon. Only 3 left (2 males, 1 female) and the Lake Kutubu that is striving.

At local LFSs the small chiller is not even a mini-chiller (1/10 or 1/15HP, with around 600BTU or 150W) but a 50W unit (16gal max) that won't do the work for my tank. The others available are big units, for big tanks, the in-line type (that requires a sump filter to work).

So I'm trying to keep the temp down with the old method of freezed drinking water bottles.

Win some, loose some, as in life I guess... I'm so sad with this deaths... I'm keeping the temp close to 28C, so far haven't been able to bring it down to 27C.
As for definite solution, it looks like I will need to install a sump filter and get one of the 1/4HP chillers for this tank, but it may be too late for the Red-Salmon bows to make it. I wish I could give them to someone who could take care of them right away, so they don't die.

Not sure how to handle this better.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

capekate

Hi Pepe
I am so sorry to hear that you lost another bow. It seems that you have done everything you could to bring the temperature down. The frozen bottled water is what I would have done as well.
I know just what you are going through as when I lost my red salmon bows as well...
You have done what you can... and hopefully someone here may have other suggestions as to lowering the temperature in your tank a bit more.

~ kate

pepetj

Update: At least some good news in the bows tank! I've been placing frozen drinking water bottles in their tank and kept the temp almost at 28C. In all I'm pulling down less than 1C, but the female that was displaying the same signs of the previous dead ones, has recovered! Her colours are back and is swimming with the other three (2 males red-salmon and 1 lake kutubu) although as expected the schooling behavior has been disrupted due to the limited number of fish.
Temp appart, other water parameters are at least excellent. I am considering purchasing a 1/4HP In-Line Chiller that is at a fairly good price (in local market values, at 600USD, everything except fish maybe is more expensive down here) and a wet/dry (sump) filter to run it in case a soon to arrive order (still in customs) has no mini-chillers in it (the manager isn't sure about that).
If I get the chiller running, I will pursue ordering more Red-Salmon bows (someone in Puerto Rico is breeding them) and if possible the hard to find Lake Kutubu bows (these ones come in a flight from Thailand I think).

Keeping the frozen bottles methods up. I can't express propperly my gratitude to you Kate, it was your info that open the possibilities for me to save this amazing fish.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

capekate

Hi Pepe
I am so happy to hear that your bows are doing much better. I know that chillers can be expensive and Im glad to hear that you have been able to order one and it is on its way to you. Im happy that I was able to help you, since losing my own R-S bows to high heat Im so glad that the advice that was given me,came in handy.
Good luck in bringing home more Red Salmon rainbows when your water temp is under control and keep us posted!