livetowin

Wow Congrats!!!!

SyrenFranco

I need to share this story, though it is not yet a total success story.

August 9th in the morning, I went about my usual routine and went over to the 20 gallon over populated fish tank I have to feed the guys. Before I continue, I say over populated because I have three different types of gold fish and I recently found out that despite their size they each need 20 gallons to themselves... I also have two Lyre Tail Black Mollys, 1 Blue Gourami, and 1 Dwarf Gourami. This is about the Dwarf Gourami, named Silver Bullet (SB).

That morning, I noticed that SB was resting lazily at the bottom of the tank, and while he's always the last to come up for food since all the other fish tend to go into a feeding excitement much like puppy dogs do, he just waits for them to calm down before moving in on the food. But not this morning. He just stayed at the bottom. I thought he was dying so I took the fish net and tapped him gently to get a reaction. He lazily swam up and noticed the food, then proceeded to eat... I figured I might need to change out the water since it had not been done in a week and my gold fish are pigs.

But I had things to do so I left for the day, and at night he didn't seem worse off, though I noticed a tiny white spot. I planned on using some ICH medication on Sunday.

Sunday, 8/10, Both my roommate (it is actually his fish) and I noticed the tiny spot was still there and he was still sluggish but he ate so I was not worried. I couldn't use the ich medication until I removed the carbon filtration so I planned on buying some foam to use temporarily. Again I had things to do so I had to leave for the day with my roommate and when we came back Silver Bullet was floating around dizzily, as though he was attempting to swim but couldn't and would allow himself to drift. Also, the white spot was much bigger and now there were more spots in different areas. We panicked and put him in a bowl. We put ich medication in the bowl and put some tubes in to increase airation.

He didn't look like he'd make it. We noticed the tank was warm but he was the only one affected. We cleaned the tank as best we could and did a 50 percent water change. We went out and bout the foam filter and applied Ich Medication to the main tank to prevent the others from catching it. And my roommate suggested something I thought was crazy, he wanted to apply hydrogen peroxide to Silver Bullet directly but in a very small amount and gently with a cotton swab. I protested but agreed to research it since he insisted it is natural and not a man made chemical. We argued but I found no proof of any harm to fish though I never found anything on applying it directly, only not to allow it to get into their gills.

So we did it... we gently swabbed all the spots with it. SB let us do it, he didn't fight at all... and after a day the spots were completely gone and he was swimming. We couldn't hold him up anymore to apply any more on him since he was swimming away... but he was not eating.

He didn't eat from then on and soon after we noticed there was a new problem. His scaled were spongy and peeling. I blamed the peroxide and my roommate insisted it wasn't harmful. He might have been right since the peeling and sponging wasn't quite where we applied it... We sought out other medication and tried some anti bacterial food.

The peeling and sponging got worse and worse and soon he looked like he had fish leprosy! It even looked like his back half was going to completely fall off from his body, he had a chuck missing out of him. If was gross but he didn't appear to be in pain, if anything we thought he perhaps lost feeling all together in that area.

We ended up getting some powder... I have to check exactly what kind, but it was recommended by a petco employee. We by this point figured it was Gourami Disease and agreed to keep him in a small iso tank (about 3 gallons) until he got better and then into my 10 gallon tank permanently away from the others in case it did not spread. We had treated the 20 gallon tank for ich and the rest of the fish continue to be perfectly healthy and happy.

We stayed hopeful and I even went home for lunch and made sure Silver Bullet knew we were there as much as possible. This may sound crazy but I think he liked that we were showing support. I think he figured out we wanted him to get better. But then, that may be wishful thinking. Whatever the case may be... I still fed him and if he didn't eat I cleaned up the food.

around the 20th, I noticed poop... small amounts, but it was a good sign. His missing chunk didn't look promising but eating does. So we monitored the feeding and at first he never ate in front of us and finally he did.

Now his appetite is back and he is pooping and the gap, that missing chunk and peeling skin seems to be regenerating. Maybe that powder stuff really worked!

I became very sad when I realized many Gouramis must have been put out of their misery, but here's ours and he looks completely hopeless and still he eats and swims and started to regenerate.

This last weekend we moved and on Sunday we brought the fish over to the new apartment. Everyone was happy with their new environment. (We don't use backdrops in the tanks and place the fish where they have the best view of everything we do since they seem to follow our movements and stare at us when we are working out or cooking.) Silver Bullet however got a little scared when we had to take him out of his tank to clean it. At first we used a net and I think that may have hurt him... then we used a cup to put him back in so not to shock him, he seemed to like that better and cooperated in swimming into the cup... I'm telling you, I think these fish are smart or can read minds...

He wasn't as active after that and didn't want to eat again... this morning I noticed poop and I fed him a little. I went about my business and when I came back to clean up any excess food, I noticed he ate it... so we're back in business with the getting better.

He's been in that little tank for 3 weeks. I think he might have to be there for many more weeks if not months but I am hopeful and believe he'll be better soon.

I don't know if it was Gourami disease at all, I suspect peroxide was a stupid move but my roommate insists it wasn't. I know it started with ich, and I am thinking of getting another gourami and some other friendly guys to keep SB company once he's in the 10 gallon, but he has to be 100% for a few months before we do that, and I worry about Gourami Disease. Heck if he did have it, I wonder about the other fish...

BTW we had him for 4 months and he was perfectly fine until the ich incident.

That will teach me to not clean the tank for a week with those gold fish.

We have had some other problems we've since solved with the water and algae... since this happened, everything is good again.

So I know this was long, but I wanted to share it.

Thanks. =)

sirdarksol

Thanks for sharing, and Welcome to Fishlore.

livetowin

Usually Buying DG's is hit or miss right now i lost one about two months ago but in the short time i had him i fell in love with them i got two new guys from a Fish only store (other one was from petsmart) and i havn't had any problems (knock on Wood) but thats good to hear that SB is better

clinton1621

SyrenFranco....

The peeling and loss of scales was most likely due to the peroxide, have you ever poured any on your skin and noticed your skin turn white? Fish have a protective "slime coat" over their entire body that keeps infections at bay.... the peroxide essentially destroyed this (although it did probably kill the ich as well) but without a slimecoat he most likely developed a secondary external infection, so thats why the powder you used (probably triple sulfa) saved him from dying. Seeing as how you had him 4 months previous to the ich then he almost certainly didnt have iridiovirus though... feel free to kick your friend for almost killing your gourami though lol!

Zackj

There is talk about Hole In the Head disease, that too infects dwarf gouramis and bettas. I got a dwarf gourami for my first fish and I was doing research when I stumbled a cross an article on Wikipedia. If HITH killed your gourami, you would see pinpoint or bigger holes around the eyes or a little spread out on the head of it.

soldieroffortune1974

I just wanted to correct that. The peroxide didn't cause that effect in the fish. I use Hydrogen Peroxide in my aquariums with no ill effects,at 10ppm. Swabbing a diseased fish with peroxide is an excellent way to get rid of parasites/bacteria and fungus infections (external).

sirdarksol

Do you have the link to the article from the main topic of this post? The links listed don't appear to be working. I was curious as to the connection of the iridovirus and your theory about 'species jumping'. I don't believe the iridovirus can 'species jump' except in very closely related species to the original host such as anabantids. Iridovirus is a highly specialised virus,that attacks the original host,produces it's spore,releases it into the water,waits for the suitable host and the cycle begins again. Iridovirus hosted by cichlids can't infect bettas,virus hosted by cichlids can't infect plecos and so on.

***EDIT*** The links are working now and after reading them,I see it's not the specific Iridovirus I was thinking. It's a class of Iridoviruses known as Megalocytivirus, (DNA based viruses) never mind,confusion cleared up.

Is there any updates to this? Are the species 'clean' now or are there still large cases still popping up?

pleco101

This disease is very common in dwarf gouramis, and has no known treatment. I had a DG and lost it to this. I ended up adding some clove oil and euthanizing it instead of letting it waste away. This same illness can be caught by mollys. WATCH OUT FOR THIS!!!

sirdarksol

Pleco101, how long ago was this?
I was actually just going to ask if anyone has had a dwarf gourami die of unusual circumstances in the past month. If not, I'm going to de-sticky this thread, I think, since it seems to no longer be an emergent issue.

sirdarksol

Thread is being unstuck. I've heard no reports of unusual DG deaths recently, so I'm guessing the epidemic is over (though this doesn't mean the virus isn't out there. It's still a really good idea to quarantine all of your fish when you get them).

Blub

Cool. I haven't seen any sickly looking labyrinth fish recently either.

Tchaku

Just found this thread. I just lost my Powder Blue DG last Sunday, that would be June 14 after only having him for 3 weeks. I'm now wondering if it was this virus. He got lithargic a day before and really wasn't eating much. I also noticed the distended stomach and a darker patch on his lower abdomin before he died.

Butters

I was just wondering about this to actually. I had bought a DG 2 or 3 months ago and it died within a week of getting it, and it was healthy when I got it. Has anyone else had any better luck with these fish?

Lucy

I got mine in March, so far so good.

Shawnie

getting a test kit, and not thinking every disease could be what your fish had, will help you in the long run.. its an investment that you never will be sorry for once you have it..the API liquid master kit will do 100's of tests for you and it has everything you need

summersquash

I lost one DG last week and he other one today. I just now found one of my red eye tetras dead at the botom of the tank. I found one dead yesterday, but I thought it had gotten stuck behind the breeder box and that had killed him. Now I am not so sure what to think. One other tetra has a white spot above his mouthbut he acts o.k. I really don't know what to do about quarantine now. I have two pregnant fish in my other tank that I usually use for quarantine. I was hoping it was just the two gauramis that had whatever is going around and that would be it. I guess I will play the waiting game and hope for the best.

Lucy

As far as I'm aware Iridovirus only effected gouramis and bettas nit tetras.
it sound slike you may have something else going on.
I would suggest you start a new thread and post a pic of your tetra, see if the members can help figure out whats going on.
Good luck

sirdarksol

Bumping this thread as there seems to be a potential concern about the virus.

Lucy

Thanks SDS. It seems like several members (including myself) have had problems with them lately.

bolivianbaby

I don't know if this will help or not, but we bought a dwarf gourami on 07-10-09 for my daughter's tank. He died on 07-18-09. I keep records of all of my tanks. The tank had been cycled for a little over a month or two. We knew about the virus when we bought him, but we thought we'd try it and see if we lucked out. We didn't and since we knew the tank was cycled, we've refused to buy any more.

Lucy

I'd like to add this link:
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-heal...l-disease.aspx
It has a pretty good discription of the virus.

sirdarksol

Added Lucy's link to the list of links in the first post.
BolivianBaby, I'm copying your post to the thread asking about the issue, so that I can get a count of the number of sick DGs we've had in the past few months. Thanks for sharing.

Tony G.

I know its an old thread, but this has me worried. My Hobo ( My new Blue DG) has bee with me for 3 days. He is by far very active, though i dont know why i feel concerned. Are there any visible signs before the letharginess and the anemia kick in? For example, not sure if this is bad, but i thought it was different. He has black lips... is that bad? not like badly black, but just dark... is that a sign?

sirdarksol

As far as I know, the lethargy is the first visible sign. Sadly, there is very, very little that can be done about this disease other than properly quarantining new fish (and even that won't help if the fish came to you sick). How this starts is that the distribution people (I believe there is one huge one in India that is responsible for the majority of DG sales into the aquarium trade) put a whole bunch of the fish together, and one of them has this virus. After that, it's like any metropolitan area during an influenza epidemic.
The last time, it seemed like the problem was dealt with because people stopped buying DGs. Stores were losing money, so they stopped ordering them. Thus, the distribution folks had to isolate the ill fish, thus solving the problem.
It's possible that they have since gotten lazy and started the pandemic again.

TedsTank

Since as far back s I can remember the dwarf gouramis have been considered sensitive fish....and they are a hot seller....so beautiful.

This Virus is awful...but also, they have been hard to keep for a long time and being on the sensitive side many deaths are also just unfortunate...tank conditions, age, shipping and handling, etc. I remember my dad also always tried to keep them...in the '70's and the good (for real) LFS told him they are just hard to keep. Dad swapped to pearl gouramis....success!!...what a fish!!

Be aware of the virus and its exsistance...but don't label all deaths as the virus.

Tony G.

Hopefully not.. i will let you know if my DG changes in any way, i guess he will be our guinea pig...

Lucy

It's important to note that not all gouramis are suseptable to this disease.
Thick-lipped, Moonlight, Paradise, Banded and Pearl to name a few.
Excellent point, don't jump to the conclusion that it's iridovirus. Always do research, check your water parameters rule out and correct any other issues.

The 4th link in SDS's 1st thread is a good indication of what my Rommy (my DG) looked like, only he looked worse.

sirdarksol

This is why I have my other thread on the issue. I want details of dwarf gourami deaths to try to determine if this is just a round of bad luck or if it's another bout of iridovirus. Earlier this year and late last year, we had an issue among forum members where the majority of dwarf gourami died within a week or two of purchase. While they are difficult to keep, they're not that difficult to keep.

Lucy

In the first link in your first post it names two types of iridovirus.
Lymphocystis and Trichogaster.

Trichogaster is the one that can kill with in 24-48 hours from the onset of the symptoms.
Lymphocystis which cause ugly lesions doesn't seem to have the same death rate.
Deaths associated with this type of iridovirus are usually from secondary infections or it's effected their internals. Ugh sorry, I can't find where I had read that.

Tony G.

I need to share my story

Hobo was with me for a week. I had bought him from what seemed a healthy tank. I wasnt aware of this virus before i got him. Once i got home i noticed his mouth was "black" i gave it no importance. He was pretty active most of the time. The only time i saw him not swimming much was at night and that was because he was probably swimming. Anyway, last night i fed the whole tank and he didnt go up to eat with the gupsters...
I gave it no attention, as i figured he is full ( he spent most of his time by the breeder net sucking the flake food at the bottom, so he practically ate whenever he did) So this morning i turned my room lights on as normal, and the guppies woke up. I fed the fry like i usually do, and he was at the bottom. I figured he wasnt fully awake, so i gave it no importance.
I got homw from school today, to find him dead, bloated, lacking his normal blue color, and he was against the filter's imput (where the water goes in through)

I then put the pieces together. The thing that startles me though, is that there are 2 types of iridovirus. The kind that kill the following days, and the ones that take a while to react. As i have read that the one that takes a while begins to basically destroy the fins, coloration, and there is a " rotting" like look. Hobo didnt have that.

My question is, which one would it have been? He was fine for a week, and a week later he passes, without any physical signs of the slow iridovirus type...
I am confused. I guess we have iridovirus too