tffy

Hey everyone, hope someone has the time to help me out. My goldfish has had this on and off for about a month now.

The fish spooks easily, so these weren't easy to take. I highlighted the areas of concern on the shots. They're quite a bit more visible with the naked eye, but the camera can only do so much.

www.genegisin.com/images/fish/1.jpg
www.genegisin.com/images/fish/2.jpg
www.genegisin.com/images/fish/3.jpg
www.genegisin.com/images/fish/4.jpg

It's in a 20 gallon tank. Treated it about 2 weeks ago with "Lifeguard" all-in-one 5-day treatment, at half of the recommended concentration. (one tablet per day). Growths didn't seem to go away, well, the ones on the tail did, but they've now come back.

What isn't visible in the pictures is the slight haze of "white cover" that it has over both of its eyes, and well, it has bubbles all over. But in general, the problems are in white cottony growths (they're smaller than what I've seen online). And also, the growths on the head were the hardest to take clear pictures of, but they're pretty prominent as well.

Not sure what this is. ICH? Not likely, I think. Really no evidence of "spotting". Columnaris, perhaps? But nothing red is anywhere near the cotton growths.

Long story short - really unsure what the fish has. Advice? Thanks!

susitna-flower

HI TIFFY, WELCOME TO FISHLORE!

I'm sorry your baby doesn't look very happy...

Your profile says you don't know about the nitrogen cycle. Do you test your water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? We will need the readings on these, and Most here recommend the API Master test kit for freshwater (liquid) to test with, they are available at most fish stores and on line.

How is your tank set up? What kind of filter? How often and how much water do you change out?

If you haven't been testing or changing water, I would start with 50% water changes every day for a few days......gold fish are huge waste producers, and eventhough you only have the one fish and it is in the right size tank, if it's been there for awhile, this will help...

I do seem to see red under the white spots, I would suggest starting with Melafix, used as directed for a few days, if you don't see any improvement, run carbon in your filter overnight, discard the carbon, and try a full treatment of either maracyn-two, or Maracyn-Plus. If you use either of these you will need to use the whole treatment like directed on the packaging, then run carbon again afterward for 24 hours to clean the meds out of the tank. Afterward you will also have to keep strict watch on your water tests, as using medications can disrupt the nitrogen cycle.

To read all about the nitrogen cycle you can go to this link.

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm Good Luck and I hope he feels better soon.

tffy

The tank is actually my mom's and she tests for stuff... but I'm not super sure what, so I will go ahead and get an API test and report the results. I believe in some testing she did the water was in a normal range. Okay, went and looked, did a test myself just now. It's a Mardel 5-in-1 tester. Results up in tank info and below.

Besides stuff I could enter in the "Tank info", I have:
Nitrate - a bit above 80ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Total Hardness - 50-120ppm
Total alkalinity - 0ppm
pH - below 6.4

Yeah, some of these look quite a bit off. Will be dealing with them when the store opens tomorrow. Suggestions?

Standard filter... not sure what it is, gotta look up. Aqua Clear foam and carbon.

Water was changed (I think about 30% after the last treatment 2 weeks ago). Will change 50% tomorrow. Uhm - let it "stand there", use bottled, or just straight from tap? This is a very stupid question, and I know that. But, I've not been doing much with the fish, just trying to fix this now.

Thanks!

Lucy

Hi tffy,
Welcome to FishLore
There are no stupid questions here, so don't worry.

I'm not familiar with the test you used, is it a strip? If so, they're not very accurate.
You also need to test for ammonia, it is toxic to fish.
Water changes will bring your nitrates down.

You will need to treat your tap water with a conditioner to removes chlorine and other bad stuff.
Some here highly recommend Prime.
I use Stress Coat from API and I have used Right Start from Jungle. When adding new water try to get it close to the tank water temp.

I hope your goldie feels better, good luck.

tffy

Okay, so, just put some tap water into a smaller container, put some conditioner in it, let it get to room temp, and I'm golden? And yes, the test I used is a strip. Will post better results when I've got them. Thanks!

COBettaCouple

Welcome to Fishlore. Rid-Fungus would be a safe treatment for fungus issues.

susitna-flower

Another excellent product to condition your water is Prime.

If you have any way to hook right up to a sink to syphon your water, and fill your tank, it will make water changes lots easier. Adjust your water temp to within a few degrees as it is coming out of the tap, before running it into the tank.

If you do it this way, you would pour the conditioner into the tank after draining out what you are going to discard, then start adding water.

With 80 for nitrates, you need to do several water changes 25-50%, in a row, and vacuum the gravel. Wait 24 hours then repeat.....do this until your tests right before water change time comes down to 10. Then weekly repeat this to maintain nitrates between 10 and 20 at the VERY highest.

The only other thing I can see with your tank is that you may need to swish your filter material in the discarded tank water. (Don't make the mistake of completely changing filter material out, you will lose all your good bacteria)

You also need to discard the carbon that is in the filter and only use carbon in the filter if you are trying to remove medications after treatment. You place it in for 24 hours after treatment then throw it away.....Carbon absorbs lots of things out of the tank water...then if it gets "full" will release it right back into the tank, causing an overload.....

tffy

I've some updated numbers. Bought API Master kit, did tests, changed 50% of the water in the tank once, will do again tomorrow.

pH - 6.4
Ammonia - 0.75 (but, whoops, waited for 10 minutes not 5, hope that's still valid)
Nitrate - 10
Nitrite - still 0

I've also purchased a bottle of Melafix, will use when directed. Also, my mom has been running the filter with carbon in it at all times, except when specifically told to not do so by a medication. That's not a right thing to do, right? susitna-flower definitely says so, as I understand it.

Edit: Re-reading, see no reason not to start Melafix treatment right now. So, first day's dose in tank.

COBettaCouple

It's best to replace carbon once a week if you use it, but we recommend only using it when clearing out meds after treating a tank.

I'd redo the ammonia reading.. it could be off with the extra 5 minutes, but it's likely you have some ammonia.

tffy

Perhaps I didn't notice this before, but the fish seems to be more buoyant now. It keeps trying to swim down and then floats up as soon as it stops paddling. Also, didn't eat any when we fed her. Just swimming around, constantly opening and closing the mouth, as if drinking water. Will redo the ammonia reading in a tad. Thanks!

COBettaCouple

That sounds like a swim bladder issue. Is there any bloating? Does your fish eat normally? Is it possible to get a pic?

tffy

Now it's not floating (as in, it was sitting forlornly on the bottom of the tank this morning). We've put it into a smaller tank, and I think since I really don't know how she's been keeping this, we're draining the whole tank, going to wash the rocks and "plants", and start from square one. PH was 6.0 this morning, so... I figure, drastic measures.

But now in the small tank she's swimming on the side, seems to be turning sideways a lot.

And now it's for the lack of a better word, "shivering"... shaking every few seconds. Baaah!

And having redone the ammonia reading a bit earlier, it's at 0.5

COBettaCouple

I'd recommend daily water changes of about 35-50% and treating the water with Prime to get the ammonia levels lower and protect your fish from the damage the ammonia is causing. One of the causes for that behavior is water chemistry problems.

tffy

The tank has been completely re-filled, stones and fake plants washed. Water re-filled, some API starter medication put in there (5ml/10gal). Fish is in it, not too happy yet, hopefully will get there, hopefully.

Over the past few days we've been also arguing whether the fish has small growths on its lips - I think it does, my mom thinks I'm imagining. Basically, the lips are not "straight", have some dimples and waves in it, and are white. I suppose I could take a picture, if wanted.

tffy

The updates continue. She seems to have relaxed now, no longer swimming belly-up all the time, just laying in the corner, belly down. So, I guess the brand-new tank and 100% new water was the problem. Measuring the new H2O now in the tank, that came straight from the tap, the pH of it was a bit high - around. 7.4 or so, but I figured that wasn't a major problem. I guess I may put another dose of Melafix in tomorrow, if all goes well.

It still is "convulsing" though, and is sitting face-to the wall all the time.

tffy

Well, if anyone's reading this still, an update. She survived the night, still laying on its back/side, mouth constantly open, gills working pretty hard... Added another dose of Melafix. Don't know what else to do. All the water tests are good, Nitrite/Nitrate at zero or close, pH about 7.3, no Ammonia.

COBettaCouple

Have you tried the Rid-Fungus?

tffy

no, is that the recommended next step?

It seems she can't breathe, according to the stuff I read online. And I'm starting the Nitrogen cycle with fish, whoops. Don't have any other choice, as far as that goes.

Nitrite and Nitrogen are still at 0s though.

Melafix, which is in the tank water right now is supposed to threat "body slime and mouth fungus", so she is on an "antifungal" of some sort.

susitna-flower

Dear Tiffy, I've been gone for a while, and have been reading your posts from the last two days...Sorry I haven't been following through....

It is never a good idea to scrub out a tank and do a complete cleaning when a fish is in such a stressed condition.

I would say your gold fish has put up a good fight, but may not make it...

The rid-fungus may be a help, but looking at your pictures, I still say the start of the problem was a bacterial infection caused by the bad water conditions. The fungus was a secondary infection. That is why I suggested the Melafix for a start, then to use either Maracyn-Two or Maracyn-Plus if the Melafix doesn't work.....I "think" you could use rid-fungus with the Maracyn-two, but wouldnt with the plus....Maradel has it't own fungus medication called MarOxy also. The thing to do with any of these medications is to read the directions and follow them, over my recommendations as some like rid-fungus I have never used.

Just look at this as a learning experience if you can. Hopefully your fish will make it, but if it doesn't you will have learned alot about the nitrogen cycle, which should make your next fish experience more fun....

tffy

The fish is still breathing really hard, laying on its side. A guy in a pet store, where I drove to get "prazi" recommended "furazone green" as the last resort, and gave me some. Yeah. The symptoms are the same as the ones someone's fish with flukes had...

I hope I'm not killing the fish here. But I may be.

COBettaCouple

The rid-fungus would be a good starting treatment for a fungal condition but it sounds like she's well past the point that the rid-fungus would help and i think sustina-flower is right about the infection.

The store gave you the best med for your goldie's current condition. It is the best thing possible to give your fish, other than a med you would have to get from a vet that treated Koi. Here's the basic info on it:
Furazone-Green is a mixture of Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, and Methylene Blue, which combine to cause a greenish cast in the water during treatment. After an initial short-stumble, the filter will function normally through this medication in the water. You should be aware that UV radiation, either from the sun or from a sterilizer, will neutralize the active ingredients. The furans are also eventually carcinogenic, which is much more of a concern for folks who use the compounds daily, like retailers or wholesalers.

tffy

Gotcha. Well, I'll keep giving it Furazone (I also added some salt to the tank), and maybe hopefully, it'll have an effect.

www.genegisin.com/images/fish/5.jpg

COBettaCouple

Good luck, we hope your little guy pulls through.

tffy

Thanks. So, we're sure it's not flukes (gill or body)? I mean, it was swimming around and eating before, even with growths on it... now it's not doing either, and, I know that the antibiotics won't do anything to flukes, once again, could it be them? Thanks!

tffy

I'm sticking with this till the bitter end.

Okay, the fish has missing scales on its lower left side, and (this part I'm not sure about, maybe I'm imagining this) its lower rear fins have gotten redder - from orange colored to blood-red. Any thoughts? I mean, easiest (and probably correct) hypothesis on the missing scales is that it's been rubbing on the rocks.

www.genegisin.com/images/fish/6.jpg
www.genegisin.com/images/fish/7.jpg

Thanks, guys!

P.S. Whooops. Don't even remember what that was. My bad.

COBettaCouple

If it's possible to get some Fish Protector, or Stress Coat even, you might want to add that to the water daily. It could help lower stress (hopefully resulting in less rubbing on the rocks) and the Fish Protector enhances antibiotics.

tffy

Too early to celebrate, but she's breathing less hard (the mouth actually stays closed more than open), and is swimming the right side up, picking at the rocks as if to get at food.

So, will continue with furazone-green for 2 more days, and... about the only other stuff I should purchase are Fish Protector/Stress coat? Since, furazone is an antibiotic, we're attacking the initial bacterial infection. Still going to have to address the secondary fungal infection - so, which of the aforementioned medications should I use for that, after cleaning out the water with some Carbon?

Sorry, hope the above makes sense. Thanks, guys!

tffy

And another thing...

It has always, like many goldfish, had a "big growth" on it's head. Now the "forehead" has become noticeably steeper, and new "pimples" are noticeable on the front of the growth (they're bumpy, and slightly lighter in color as well).

www.genegisin.com/images/fish/8.jpg
www.genegisin.com/images/fish/9.jpg

Is that anything to worry about? And after the antibiotic treatment ends tomorrow, and I clean the water out with carbon, and I change 25% of it... should i do anything more regarding the fungal growth? The fish seems better, it's swimming around, not going up in the tank though - always staying at the bottom, and eating whatever if finds down there.

Thanks guys!

Edit 1: You can see the forehead change that has happened compared to an image taken, like, 3 days ago. www.genegisin.com/images/fish/5.jpg
Edit 2: Well, I am talking to myself here, it looks like. Found some info on http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...AApn4bi&show=7 and http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/tom04.html that states that apparently the growth... keeps growing! And some folks (I'm not about to do this, don't worry) even trim it!

Lucy

Hi tffy,
I'm sorry you feel like you're tlking to yourself. If it helps any, I have been following this thread to see how your goldie is getting along. I just can't offer any help.
He seems to be looking better!