aquariumnewbie

My 3 baby flowerhorn isn't active and they have stripes all over their body. When I put in food, they freak out and swim frantically in the water and sometimes almost jumping out of the tank. After swimming frantically, they sort of became really pale and appeared to be dead but gills are moving. After a min or so, colours came back and they are covered in stripes again. Please, anyone know what is wrong with them? Help me out.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...n-8thApril.jpg

this is how they look like with the stripe. but they are hanging near the water surface at the corner of the tank. help will be really appreciated.

Peterpiper

Hi aquariumnewbie,
First we need to know some thing about your tank
1, how long has it been running?
2, when were the flowerhorn put in the tank?
3, do you have a air pump pumping air into the tank?
4, do you test the water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate
5, what are you feeding them

aquariumnewbie

The tank has been running for about 2weeks already. Before adding 3 babies, the tank has another flower horn of around 3" to 4". The flowerhorn has good appetite and doesn't have much problems.

The 3 new babies were bought yesterday at a LFS. as from the picture i provided. they are only 1.5" long.

Air pump is pumping air into the water.

Sadly, the store was out of stock for those water tester. So what i did was a daily change of around 15% of water. And the bigger flowerhorn seem to be doing good and pretty active.

But i really don't wanna lose my 3 baby flowerhorn. I'm sorry to be unable to provide any info on water testing.

Peterpiper

Ok the tank has not been cycled and I think it is building up ammonia in the water,
You need to do a large water change now. 75% (3/4 of the water in the tank needs to be replaced ) do you have treatment for the tap water?
Sorry to say this but the fish will need to returned to the store until the tank has been cycled

aquariumnewbie

Sad to hear about that. I do have anti chlorine and some aquarium supplement. and yes a question. perhaps a dumb one. is there any sign to see if the water is cycled? or the only way is by doing water test? if so, what have the result got to be? sorry to ask dumb question. =/

Peterpiper

Sorry for the bad news so far.. Asking questions is how we all learn, and here there is no such thing as a dumb question
First it is not the water that cycles, the "cycling" is a build up of bacteria that changes Ammonia to Nitrite and then other bacteria changes Nitrite to Nitrate.
During the cycle, water testing is done to see how it is going.
At the end of the cycle your reading would be Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, and Nitrate less than 40 ( a water change removes the Nitrates from the tank )
I have a link for you to read on cycling, and please ask questions if you are unsure or dont understand something.

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

Peterpiper

Dankygreen,
I really hope you change your way of thinking and giving advice about cycling with fish.
cycling using fish is a very cruel method as the fish is exposed to Ammonia and Nitrite both of which are a poison.
Can you tell me why you would put a fish through this pain when you can cycle your tank without live fish?

aquariumnewbie

Thanks so much for providing information for my questions. So i guess i'll just have to wait for the stock for water test to arrive. And I've to buy quite a few testers right? for ammonium NH4 , Nitrite NO2 , Nitrate NO3. total 3 testers right? anymore important testers? pH ? or anything?

Peterpiper

The first 3 are the main players you need to cycle, PH & hardness come when you put in the fish. a low ph can slow the cycle to a point but we can talk about that later..
Now there is a way you could keep the fish in the tank and you would need to do large water changes every day 50+% water changes for 4-5 weeks.
and you would need to buy another filter to suit your tank, and cycle the new filter in a tub using the ammonia method.
So if your up for the water changes every day for a month let me know and I will show you how.

aquariumnewbie

So let me ask again, ''cycling of the tank is a process of ''breeding'' the good bacteria. so lets say a 50% water change won't remove those bacteria right? How often should i clean the filter?

Shawnie

nice advice peter

kra-z-fishmumm

You won't really 'clean' the filter, you will rinse it in the water you take from the tank and not unless it is really gross because the bacteria build up in the filter and on gravel (so no deep vaccuming until you are cycled) and on decorations(not as much as the filter and gravel), changing the water 50% at this point is protecting the fish from ammonia and nitrite build up, and will not hurt the growth of the bacteria much, more than 50% is too drastic.
Peter is giving FANTASTIC, CORRECT, information, and if you decide to cycle with the fish in,,, I would PM Peter and ask for complete instructions--IMO
Good Luck and keep us posted.

Peterpiper

The 50% water change will remove the ammonia from the tank, by removing the ammonia from the tank you have removed the danger to the fish.
But (I know.. always a but) by removing the ammonia from the tank, you have removed the food for the bacteria, so, as long as you are removing the ammonia, this tank will not cycle, but the fish will be safe.
So how do you cycle this tank? you dont..
You cycle another filter in a tub. As +90% of bacteria is located in the filter media, you just cycle a filter. Once it is cycled, you swap it with the one on the tank and stop the 50% water changes.. the bacteria in the new filter will deal with the ammonia that the fish produce and the tank is "cycled"

aquariumnewbie

I'm sorry to say. But it's cycling with fish. So i'm gonna heed all your advices of changing the water daily of 50% so as to not let the ammonia harm my fishes.And guys! good news about 1 baby flowerhorn, it's swimming slightly more than yesterday. but sadly, 1 is looking worst. and the other 1 is same as yesterday. I'll keep up the daily water change. And yes, like i said I'm sorry to cycle with fish. But i'd love more info on how to protect them since i've made a great mistake.

Shawnie

Alot of us have done it this way..because of the lack of knowledge..not because we are mean...I did it as you..the hard way, with fish ..you are doing well by the 50% water changes daily..its long hard work, but the only way to cycle it with fish..unless you can get some bio-spira at your pet store, daily changes are it...goodluck and dont be so hard on yourself..correcting it now is what matters

aquariumnewbie

Thanks you guys for feeding me with all the knowledge. I'm seeing a better behaviour in the fish. it's slightly better than yesterday. 2 out of 3 are not hanging near the surface. just hoping now that all 3 will be fine. & please fill in more of your personal knowledge to enlighten me. I'd appreciate it a lot.

capekate

dankygreen, you mean to say that YOU have never cycled your tank with fish? And yet, you advice others to do so in many of your responses? You say that you are not encouraging anybody to follow through with this method, just simply giving options. But the fact is that you are encouraging others to cycle with fish, when you suggest just that. You have been advised in many post replies that you have made regarding cycling with fish, how harmful it is to the fish and yet you continue to offer this bad advice. "To each is own" is not an excuse or a right to offer bad advice IMO.

aquariumnewbie

Well, I'm gonna agree that cycling with fish is the worst thing to do. But because of my lack of knowledge, I've to cycle with fish this time. When I'm getting a bigger tank, I'll never ever let such things happen again. Well, hope everyone don't commit the same mistake like me and end up putting the fish in harm. It sure doesn't feel good to see our pet being sick.

capekate

g'morning aquariumnewbie,
Dont feel so bad about it. It was a honest mistake since you really didnt know about the harmful effect on fish when cycling a tank w/fish. The important thing is that you have asked questions and have learned there is a better way and acting on it. Good for you.

aquariumnewbie

Thank you capekate, well it's certainly a bad mistake made. but am already trying to make them comfortable in the water. But don't mind me asking, why is one of the baby flowerhorn's stomach look so bloated? I ain't sure if it ate alot though. but it has been hanging around the water surface and just floating there. it's not upside down though. just a bloated stomach and no activity at all. just floating at the water surface.

capekate

Did it have a bloated stomach when you brought it home from the fish store? I had a d.gourami that when I brought it home, I noticed that its belly was pretty round too. Its hard to say what it can be,and if it brought any bacteria or parasite problem home from the fish store. Dropsy is a fish disease that shows up in swollen bellies, but there are other symptoms to watch for as well as, bulging eyes, or recessed eyes, pale gills, red spots on the skin and damaged fins. Its a serious disease where there is no cure and is contagious. Im hoping that your flowerhorn does not have any of these other symptoms and that maybe its just constipated.
Watch for any of these other signs of problems. I hope that you do not find any of them.

aquariumnewbie

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/DSC01113.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/DSC01112.jpg

those are the two links to the bloated stomach of the baby flowerhorn. i've check for those signs u mentioned. but never really see any different from the other 2 babies. perhaps this bloated one is more pale than the rest.

when i purchase them, i don't remember seeing such a bloated belly in any of them. i guess it happened yesterday or something.

the pictures are not clear. but it's still able to see the stomach is bloated.

& i've noticed that there is a string of transparent substance at it's anus. its a thin transparent substance. any idea what is it? it's impossible to catch it in picture though.

capekate

I did some research for you.
Appetite dwindles, belly swells, feces trails.
could be, constipation or internal parasites.
You can try treating the tank with Tank Buddies, Parasite Clear, by Jungle Lab.
It sounds like internal parasites to me.

aquariumnewbie

ugh... parasites. I hate them. I'll see if it's belly will get any smaller for now. if there is still no improvement, then i'll get the medication to treat it. hope it's just plain constipation and not parasites. it seems to be trying to pass out it's waste. the white transparent substances seem to became longer. which i think it's trying to clear it's bowel. but i just wonder why it's white/semi transparent in colour.

capekate

the color and substance is not normal for fish feces, and that is why I am guessing that it is parasites. It will not be able to heal itself if it is in fact internal parasites and can pass on to the other fish as well.
I do not think constipation would result in the type of poo you are describing, but I may be wrong. good luck with the lil guy... he is a very pretty fish!

aquariumnewbie

Thank you capekate, your help is really appreciated.

Butterfly

dankygreen - Yes your correct each of us have the freedom to make choices about how to cycle a tank-with/without fish. But then our fish have to live with the consequences. We really prefer not to advocate cycling with fish. Yes danios are tough little fish but they don't like being in a tank as it cycles any better than another fish would.
Giving advice as you've been giving might encourage a new person to cycle with fish when they might not. I'm sure you want to help your fellow fish keepers as much as possible so if you don't know for sure /haven't done it check out your advice before giving it please.
aquariumnewbie - What size is your tank? Those are beautiful little fish. I thought flowerhorn had big foreheads what happened
We have all made mistakes in our fishkeeping careers, and most of us started out when there weren't websites like fishlore to help us out.
Capekate, shawnie, Peterpiper, Kra-z-fishmumm great information. Keep up the good work. Thanks for sharing past experiences and learning from it.
Carol

aquariumnewbie

I'm really glad I came upon Fishlore. I'm filled with lots of information here. Well to your question, I'm having a tank about 13gallon. Those flowerhorn are still young so no hump on their heads yet. and seems like 1 of them is suffering from constipation or internal parasite. Hope it will be fine.

Butterfly

Aquarium newbie one of the problems is the tank size. Even small four fish in a 13g is way over crowded.
I'm sorry to have to suggest this, but is there anyway to take the new ones back to the store until you can get a larger tank? From everything I've read they need large tanks even as juveniles and stress is whats causing their stripes to disappear.
Here's some general Flowerhorn information for those who haven't experienced Flowerhorn http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=flowerhorn
Let us know if you need anything else.
carol

aquariumnewbie

Thanks Carol. I understand the fact that the tank isn't big enough. I'm starting to save up on a bigger tank. I'll definitely get a bigger home for them. Sad to say, one of the baby that is suffering from the bloated belly, just died. Sigh. I'm gonna maintain the daily water change of 50% and hope those babies will stay strong. Well, it isn't possible to return the fish though. I ain't familiar with the store owner so such negotiation won't be accepted i guess. They might worry that I've done damage to the fish. I'm feeling so bad to cause my fish to die. Blame on my lack of knowledge. Should have researched properly before even starting on this hobby. But I'm not giving though. I'll learn from my mistake.