LeapyLeigh

So here I am. (sorry if this is not in the right place, but I have a variety of issues)

I got a freshwater tank from my husband last year at Christmas.
70 litre freshwater tank with undergravel filter.

Got it set up, cycled and running fine.
After about 2 weeks got myself about 6 neon tetra's.

They were fine for a few days and then ICH struck

I then medicated the tank, stopped the progression, lost 2 tetra's and waited about a month before adding new fish.

I got 3 more tetras and 2 guppies.

One tetra and one guppie died.

I left it longer, got the water rigoursly tested by the aquarium (no water issued and was told that it was perfect) was religious with my tank changes and cleans.

Again I got the courage to get more fish (did I mention I cried at the passing of my fish)

I got 3 guppies and a couple more tetras and 2 bristlenose catfish.

The tetra's survived but all the new guppies all died (some kind of fungal issue I am pretty sure) The original guppie survived.

So I left the tank for ages and ages. With about 7 tetras, 2 bristlenoses and 1 guppie.

I then got issues with alge bloom in the water.

Finally figured out what was causing this (I had a live plant on driftwood and the driftwood was decomposing and putting too much nutrient into the water)
Got rid of the driftwood and plant and my water cleared right up.

Left it another while and finally though...right I am at the end of the problems now (I expected a learning curve)

I lost one Bristlenose (just natural attrition I guess) during this time, but all the other fish were happy and healthy.

So I finally thought I will get a few more fish...Ha

I bought 2 more tetras (to take the total to 8)
2 guppies (taking the total to 3)
2 bristlenoses (taking total to 3)
2 silver sharks (total 2)

In carefully introduced them to my tank and they all seemed happy.
But the guppie that had been there originally had started chasing the other guppies around like mad. He was nipping them and hassasing them and of course they would nip back. Next morning one guppie was dead and then by that afternoon all 3 were dead (including the original) I tested my water and it was all fine, so I took a sample to the local aquarium and they again said that my water was perfect. I did a partial change just to be sure (10%)
They could not explain why my guppies would die other than the stress of a new tank and being harassed. I asked why did the original main agressor die and they said again its probably been wounded by one of the others and had worn itself out from chasing the others. There was no sign of disease but all their tails were ragged.

So the next few days were OK. I lost one new bristlenose (again I just thought it had not adjusted to the tank properly) and then suddenly each day I was losing one fish.
I lost a couple of tetras.
Then my original bristlenose and then a couple more tetras.
The water was still perfect.
I wondered if the silver sharks were attacking them but there were no signs of wounds or disease.

Then strangely it stopped. I was down to 2 silver sharks, 4 tetras and one bristlenose.
My husband then confessed that he had been using the double adaptor to charge his mobile phone and I though well maybe there was some kind of Electro Magnetic Field meing generated that was causing the losses, as as soon as he stopped my losses stopped.

So things were going swimmingly (pardon the pun) for a few days and I was started to feel less depressed about the whole tank, when I came home from work one afternoon and switched the tank lights on and.......

The dreaded ich had struck

For goodness sake. So I treated the tank, did the water changes and still over the next few days I lost 3 tetras (one seemed to be immune) and then over the last two days each of the silver sharks have died.

I now have 1 neon tetra and one bristlenose, whom both seem to be in good health.

I honestly am feeling so discouraged and upset.

I have done EVERY **** thing right. I have never neglected a tank change, or a gravel vac, or anything. I have tested for so many various things that I feel I could now ace a chemistry exam at uni and become a chemist.

I have spent a small fortune on stuff for this tank, from various testing kits, to medications etc.

I have lost over the time about $80 worth of fish, and while I no longer cry like a baby (yes I am female) when I lose a fish, it still hurts and depresses me and upsets me.

To make matters worse my father in law, having decided he liked my fish (ha when they were healthy and happy) decided to get a coldwater tank and had had not a single **** problem. So unfair.

So here I am, I am now wondering what the to do.

Its been 10 months and while I have had periods of enjoyment overwhelmingly I have had a negative experience.

If I was negligent then I could understand, but I am not.

Do I give up?
Get rid of the 2 remaining fish and try coldwater.
Convert the tank to a reptile tank and get a small frill neck lizard?

Or do I bite the bullet and keep trying.

I dont know anymore.

If anyone wants to offer any advice or sympathy or share with me thier own tank of death horror stories and how they perservered and won in the end then please do.

Leigh
Melbourne
Australia

Jim

Leigh,
OK, first off, as far as horror stories, I wouldn't know where to begin. I must have over a hundred posts about my first tank, a 42 gallon Hex that originally had a snake in it. I cleaned it up and filled it up and tried to put some fish in it....
I can't begin to discribe the problems I had, from unreal algea blooms to weird, never ending amonia spikes. And I killed so many fish I should have my head on a wanted poster in some fish mailroom somewhere. I and pretty much everyone here at the time, never really figured out what caused it, but it most likely came down to one of 2 things:
1st is the idea that a tank that has housed a reptile for a long period of time can't be used as a fishtank again. I'm not so sure about this, and now that I sort of know what I'm duing, i'm tempted to pull it out of storage and really clean it right try it again.

Now, the second thing that most people agreed on may have been causing my problems, and I think this may really interest you, is I had an UNDERGRAVEL filter. You'll find that most people here hate them for one reason or another. The problem is that sometimes so much muck builds up that it forms amonia and fungus and algea pockets under the filter, just waiting for something to stir them up. And no kidding, the more I tried to clean the tank, the worse it seemed to be getting. I had fungus's, Ick, finrot, you name it. And horrible algea blooms over and over.
Now, I'm not positive that was the cause, but when my taxes came in last year I went out and bought an beautiful 46 gallon Bowfront. And because of the shape of the tank you can't really use an undergravel, so I didn't bother with one. And let me tell you, other than waiting for it to cycle, I haven't had a problem. In fact my angelfish just laid eggs for the second time... I must be doing something right... who knew?

So, my advise to you is this, if you're to the point of starting over, then start over. But this time scrap the undergravel, and get a really good back filter with one or 2 bio-wheels. I actually use 2 Penguin 350's, each capable of handling my tank by itself. Both have 2 bio-wheels, and both are ultra-silent. Before you do anything, clean the tank really good, and if it were me, i would either boil or toss the gravel and decorations.

Obviously you'll have to wait for the tank to cycle, but other than that I'm betting you'll have much less problems.

The biggest thing, if you do plan on starting over, is talk to EVERYONE here...lol. These guys are a goldmine of advise, and really helped me when I was ready to throw the tank out the window (good thing they're so heavy)
Good luck, and keep us posted on how it goes

LeapyLeigh

Jim thanks for the quick response.

I have been calling mine the tank of death for a while now in order to try and maintain at least some sense of humour.

Firstly if starting again, what should I do with my survivors. I don't want to spend more money setting up another holding tank at this stage. Should I "gasp" just euthanise them or can I put them into another container with some water from the old tank for a couple of hours until I have removed the gravel filter, washed the whole thing and refilled? Would the 2 small fish survive this process and would it interfere with starting the whole cycle again?

Secondly excuse my ignorance but what is a BioWheel filter?

I did actually purchase an additional filter which I have yet to install, I am at work at the moment and can't check it, but it has a foam pad like thing (that has to be washed in the aquarium water to keep the bacterial colony alive) and a charcol canister that needs replacing every 6 weeks.

ETA..just did some research and mine is an internal filter.
I see now what a biowheel is.
How are they fitted to the tank. I have an AquaOne tank that has a fully integrated hood with lights etc. Can one of these be fitted to that kind of tank?

Piccie of my type of tank

Jim

Leigh, no problem. First, some people cycle a tank with fish, so aaas far as interfearing with the process, no they wouldn't. However, most here advise against it, because it's rough on the fish. If it were me, I have a LFS that takes fish back with no problem. But again, if they've made it this far, then they're tough fish, and might andling a cycling process with no problem. It's you're call. Either way, I wouldn't flush them, that's cruel.

OK, a bio-wheel filter.... You're from Australia, so I think they've got them there. It's a big filter that hangs from the back of the tank. Water is sucked into it and passes thru a filter pack, either store bought or homemade. The water then flows out like a little waterfall back into the tank. The Bio-wheel is a special little wheel, maybe 2 inches in diameter, that sits and spins over the water as it flows into the tank, much like a paddlewheel. It will eventually get kind of brown and mucky, but this is a good thing, that's all the bio-spira and whatever the other bacteria is called, that removes amonia and nitrites in the water. They work really well, and personally I like them the best.

LeapyLeigh

Jim thanks again

I didn't mean to say that I would flush them (I hate cruelty to animals in all forms) but when I had the first ich outbreak I knew that a couple of my tetra's would not make it. It was really upsetting me to see them suffer as they would swim a little bit and then sort of float and buffet about and you could tell that they were suffering.
So I rang my vet (I think my vets bills for my cat put his kids through college) and he told me that if I wanted to put them out of their misery that I could place them into some ice cold water and that would painlessly slow and stop thier body functions.
Just wanted to clear that up.

I am about to educate myself (from the help of this place) as to the type of filters I can get and will get rid of the UGF and get a new type. I will keep the fishes and hopefully they will survive the process

AggieYen

Hi Leigh, you're from my neck of the woods so I just wanted to say hi! I'm rather new to fishkeeping myself, so I don't have much advice to give, but the folk here really know their stuff, so you've come to the right place. I was just wondering - do you have a heater in your tank? As I understand from what I've read here, the fish that you have need a heater, and warmer water, and I don't think AquaOne's have inbuilt heaters. I have a smaller AquaOne, and it's got the hood and the lights, and the UGF, but no heater. I'm looking at replacing my UGF too.

I'm not sure where you are in Melb, but there's a pretty good Aquarium run by Pets Wonderland over in Prahran - corner of High and Chapel Sts - I believe they have most things your fish desire.

I think your tank may be a little small for the silver sharks, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong Most folk here go by gallons So a 70 litre is... 18.5 Gallon.

LeapyLeigh

Hi Aggie..

I live out the Berwick way so hardly get a chance to get into the city, but appreciate the heads up about the Aquarium.

I have got a heater, I bought that when I decided I wanted a tropical.

In regards to the Silver Sharks, you could be right, but they were OK until the ick struck, seemed happy enough anyway and no ammonia spikes or anything!

AggieYen

Hi Leigh,

Oh that's quite a distance away - I hope you have a good LFS in your area? Yeah just thought I'd check about the heater. I know some guys here have had really good success with treating ich by raising the temp to 82 degrees for a while and using Ich-Attack, i believe it was called.

Don't give up on them - if fish is what you want, don't give up on having them. Once they thrive they're such joys to watch. I get really upset when I lost my fish too, but then you learn from each loss. Some really good advice I've been given on how to change the UGF without disrupting the cycle is from the Master of the Fish Pool himself:

"i'd definitely recommend changing filters. A ugf could be harmful to otos and bettas. I would run the HOB filter at the same time as the UGF for up to a week if possible.

Then, I would move the oto out of the tank into a bowl of tank water. Put more tank water in another container and move your substrata & decor to that. Take the UGF out and let the dust settle to vacuum/suck out. Return the substrata and decor and once it's settled, acclimate your otos, then your betta." - COBettaCouple

LeapyLeigh

Brilliant Advice!!

Why didn't I think of that.

Awesome....Feeling more positive again.

Thanks soooo much

COBettaCouple

hello & welcome to fishlore! i wish it were under happier circumstances, but i think a lot of us find FishLore when we're having a hard time with our fish.

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm - if you've not read this, it's a good document on the cycle and on cycling with fish.

Now for the questions..
Do you have pics of your tank that you could post? Particularly of the top? Does your tank have a filter in the hood as well as an undergravel?
what are your current ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings?
what do you use now for treating your tap water?
how often and what percentage are your partial water changes?
what kind of heater is in your tank and what temp do you keep the water at?

as far as freezing fish goes, there is some debate currently on if it is painless or excruciatingly painful. i've read veternary association papers on the topic and many feel that ice crystals forming in the fish as it freezes cause great pain. either way, i would recommend Clove Oil as a euthanization method, should you ever need to put a fish down.

best of luck and i hope that a "restart" will turn your tank into a happy, lively tank worth all the work you've put into it.