chunkdaddy

Hi everyone!
I'm new to fishkeeping, and thought I would throw out my info to see if anyone has any advice for me.

I purchase a 5 gallon Minibow aquarium on 2/12. I have 2 zebra's & 2 buenos aires tetras. I've put a complete water conditioner and a Bio-boost into the water, per the instructions. So far everything is going fine.

I was wondering if I need to get a heater for my aquarium? I also have not tested my water. Is this important? If so, can anyone recommend a test kit that works, but doesn't cost a fortune?

Thanks for any help anyone can give.

emily8

Have you cycled it? You probably need a heater, but I may be completely wrong. And yes, you definitely do want to test your water. Fishlore as a whole recommends the API Master Test Kit. It's sort of expensive, but it's accurate so it's pretty much worth it.

Oh and I forgot to say, welcome to Fishlore

chunkdaddy

I was told to put the fish in the aquarium 24 hrs after I set it up. The zebras & buenos aires tetras were recommend as hardy fish who would help cycle the tank.

konstargirl

Hi and welcome!!

You need a test kit all the time when you have an aquarium. Everyone here reconmends getting API freshwater master test kit. Don't know what else to say to you. Both fish are schooling fish and you don't have enough space to hold a large school. You should upgrade to a much larger tank or take them back to the petstore and do a fishless cycle Hope your tank goes well.

Elodea

Agree with above, an API Master test kit is essential. Do not buy the strips, they are very inaccurate and more expensive per test.

Did you know about the nitrogen cycle? Click the link to the here or in my signature.

I assume that the zebras are zebra danios, which, unfortunately, need a lot of swimming space. A 10 gallon tank is the raw minimum, a 15 gallon would be much better.

Buenos Aires tetras are even less suitable for a 5 gallon tank, they can rgow up to 3 inches, and a 20 gallon tank is the minimum for them.

Here are the links to the caresheets of these fish:

Zebra Danio: http://www.fishlore.com/Profiles-ZebraDanio.htm

Buenos Aires Tetra: http://www.fishlore.com/profile-buenosairestetra.htm

You might want to return the fish to the pet store if possible. Next time, do research on the fish you want to buy.

Since your tank isn't cycled, I would suggest doing a 30%-40% (1.5-2 gallons) water change daily. After you get the test kit, follow the ammonia readings for WCs.

When you test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, post your readings immediately.

Oh, and by the way, Welcome to Fishlore! Remember that most of us here have gone through the same rough start in fishkeeping as you have (don't even ask me about the first time I set up my tank...)

Prince Powder

Hello chunkdaddy and welcome to Fishlore!

I'm afraid you received some really bad information from the pet store people. Giving bad information seems to be a chronic problem with fish retailers. While you can cycle a tank with fish in it, it is generally not recommended. Cycling a tank means exposing your fish to highly toxic ammonia and nitrites which, even with the hardiest of fish, can cause permanent damage and sometimes death. There are ways of cycling a tank without exposing living fish to these toxins, sadly the fish store people never recommend these methods because they either don't know, don't care, or are not willing to lose a sale.

For one thing, a 5 gallon tank is really too small for the fish you have. Even though they are tiny and will not get much bigger when they are full grown, these fish need quite a bit more room to swim. Also these fish live much happier and more stress free lives when they are kept in groups of 6 or more. Please don't take that as a recommendation to go out and get more fish for your 5 gallon tank, quite frankly they wouldn't even fit, it is just some information you should know. There are some fish that are suitable for 5 gallon tanks. Some good suggestions would be bettas, dwarf puffers, or dwarf frogs. Of course all of these would need to be kept by themselves in the tank, but they are some of the few fish who are suitable for a tank that size. For the fish you have I would recommend upgrading to at least a 10 gallon, but to have proper schools of both kinds of fish you would need something even bigger than that. If you can not upgrade to a larger sized tank I would recommend returning the fish you have now and doing a fishless cycle. Then after the cycle is complete you can get a more suitable fish like one of those I mentioned above.

One of the most important things in fish keeping is learning about the Nitrogen Cycle. If you click on the underlined words there it will take you to a page that explains the nitrogen cycle. In a nutshell, when your fish poo they release ammonia into the tank, the presence of ammonia causes bacteria to grow, their sole purpose is to eat the ammonia and turn it into nitrite. Nitrite, like ammonia, is toxic to fish. The presence of nitrite will cause another bacteria to grow, their sole purpose is to eat the nitrite and turn it into nitrate. Nitrate is not toxic to fish as long as it is kept in low amounts via water changes. When you have enough bacteria growing to eat all the ammonia and all the nitrites in about 10-12 hours the cycle is complete and the tank water is safe for fish.

Because the first steps of the nitrogen cycle is the presence of ammonia and nitrites, both of which are toxic to fish, monitoring their levels is of extreme importance. To keep an eye on those levels you will need a test kit. Test strips are sold, but I would not recommend them. They are very inaccurate and can get much more expensive than the liquid test kits since you have to go through so many of them. The API Master Test Kit can be a little on the pricey side, but it is one of the best kits out there and will provide you with hundreds of tests so you won't need to buy them often. You will need a kit capable of doing LOTS of tests since you will need to be testing the water daily if you are going to cycle with fish.

Another item you will need to get is a better water conditioner. The one you have now will be more than sufficient once your tank is completely cycled. However, while you are cycling with fish, you will need a conditioner that will not only condition the water, but also detoxify the ammonia and nitrites in order to keep your fish safe. Seachem Prime and Amquel+ are both very good products that are ideal for use when cycling. I use Prime myself even though my tanks are now cycled. It may cost a bit more up front, but it's actually a really good deal since it takes only a few drops of Prime to condition the water where as it could take about 1/4 teaspoon or more of some other water conditioners. Both Prime and Amquel+ will detoxify ammonia and nitrites in the water for 24 hours and keep the fish safe during that time. However since they only stay detoxed for 24 hours you will have to do partial water changes with the Prime or Amquel+ every day until your tank is cycled.

Bio-Boost is a bacteria additive that claims to help cycle a tank, however the bacteria in it is terrestrial and can not survive in an aquatic environment. The bacteria in Bio-Boost dies quickly so you have to keep adding it over and over and over, pretty much forever. In the meantime the bacteria is eating all the ammonia that your real beneficial bacteria needs to survive. Because of that your tank actually never cycles properly and as soon as you stop adding the Bio-Boost your cycle crashes which can lead to your fish dying. I would recommend that you stop using the Bio-Boost and, if possible, returning it.

Cycling a tank takes about a month to complete so you have allot of work ahead of you! You will need plenty of patience, but if you are committed to doing it properly you and your fish will make it through. Good luck with your tank!

Lucy

Welcome to FishLore!!

Here are Four Methods of Fish Less Cycling

Good luck!

chunkdaddy

I just did my first test of my water. Here are my levels:
pH 7.6
High Range PH 8.0
Ammonia 4
Nitrite .25
Nitrate between 0 and 5

If anyone could tell me what this means, I'd appreciate it.

xxSTEPHENSxx

Ammonia is bad for your fish and so is Nitrite. After your cycle has completed those numbers should be 0 and your Nitrate level should be a little high. You will keep your nitrate level down by doing water changes. *someone please correct me if i am wrong*

pH isn't that important. I believe the pH is what causes alge.

I am new like yourself. Someone may chime in and help me out. But this is my understanding. Hope this helps! Good luck.

Lucy

Are there fish in the tank?

chunkdaddy

I've got 2 Zebra Danios & 2 Buenos Aires Tetras

Lucy

The ammonia level is extremely toxic.

Here's a basic explanation of the nitrogen cycle:

First your ammonia (from fish waste and left over food) will rise.
In a few weeks bacteria will start to develop and you'll see the nitrite levels rise and the ammonia levels start to drop.

After a few more weeks a different kind of bacteria begins to develop and you'll see the nitrate levels rise and the nitrite levels drop.

Ammonia and nitrites are toxic to your fish.
So until your cycle is complete, you need to keep the levels down with 50% daily water changes.

If your pH differs greatly from tap to tank 2 25% changes a day would be safer.
Using Prime (or a water conditioner that detox's ammonia) as your water conditioner will detox the ammonia for 24 hrs between water changes.

When you having readings of 0 on both ammonia and nitrites with some nitrates showing, your cycle is done.

ryanr

It means your tank is cycling. I suggest reading http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm as recommended by Elodea et al.

You have extremely high ammonia levels which will kill your fish if you're not very careful. (sorry to be blunt, but that's the hard truth)

LFS are really bad when it comes to advising on cycling with fish, it is a really bad idea, and cruel.

What to do:
1. Stop using bio-boost, and get yourself some Tetra Safe Start and Seachem Prime
2. Add TSS as directed to your tank.
3. Start a regime of daily water testing and changing about 30-50% everyday.
4. Daily doses of Prime will not only condition your water, but will also detox the ammonia for 24hrs at a time.
5. Be patient, this process is going to take weeks until your Amm = 0, nitrItes = 0, and some nitrAtes

I also strongly recommend reading the Beginner guides: http://www.fishlore.com/Beginners.htm

PS - I'm not having a go at you, it just really frustrates me when Pet Shop's advise unsuspecting beginners to cycle the tank with fish.

Elodea

With ammonia that high, you might even want to try doing 2 water changes (30%) daily.

Ideally, ammonia should be at 0 PPM
Ammonia at 0.25 ppm - 0.5 ppm is stressful to fish
Ammonia at 1 ppm is extremely stressful and dangerous to fish
Ammonia over 1 ppm could kill

Nitrite should be at 0 ppm
Nitrite at 0.25 ppm - 1 ppm is stressful
Like ammonia, nitrite over 1 ppm can kill

Nitrate should be UNDER 40 ppm

Right now, pH doesn't really matter. Keep up with the water changes and hope the best for your fish.

Good luck!

jdhef

Your ph is 8.0.

I know it's a little confusing, but there is no ph & high range ph, it's just that one sigle test doesn't test the entire ph range. So one tests for somewhere below 6 to 7.6 and the high range tests from 7.4 to somewhere above 8.

chunkdaddy

Thanks for all the help everyone! So far, so good. My fishes are still alive. Actually, their my kids. I bought the aquarium on the spur of the moment for my son, 7, and daughter, 5, birthday party. What a mistake!!!! Oh well, hopefully with all your help the fish will survive.

I'm going to get some Amquel+ Plus to condition the water. Can anyone recommend a good bio booster? I had Jack's Aquariums Bio-Boost, but was told that was worthless by you guys. I can get the Amquel+ at Petsmart, but can't seem to find a bio boost with a name I recognize. They don't have Tetra Safe Start, at least on their website.

Thanks

Prince Powder

Tetra Safe Start is easier to find at small mom and pop stores than at chain stores. As far as I know, big chains don't carry it. If you are willing to buy online Drs. Foster and Smith carry it. TSS @ drsfostersmith.com The smaller bottle is for tanks up to 30 gallons, but don't worry it is impossible to overdose with this stuff. I used the 75 gallon bottle on my 10g with no ill effects. You do HAVE to use the entire bottle though, just so you know. I wouldn't waste my money on any other biological supplement, the others don't work. Be careful when you go to Petsmart, they will generally try and sell you a bottle of Nutrafin Cycle or Seachem Stability or something along those lines. DO NOT let yourself get talked into those, they will mess up your cycle.

Roadsy

Well you have been tricked by the pet shop. If any fish is used to cycle (which is cruel) Danios (Zebra work the best) are HARDY fish and so are gold fish. The fishless cycle is just as effective and can be done by adding pure ammonia (avalible at local supermarkets i beleive) instead of fish :P
Filters from old aquariums and stones can also be used but since its your fist time you wont have access tio these so Ammonia is you best bet and return your fish if you ammonia and nitrite lvls rise anymore!

Good Luck

aquarist48

Hello ChunkyDaddy and Welcome to Fish Lore!

One of the above posters mentioned that pH wasn't important. I respectfully disagree with that statement. Knowing your pH levels and maintaining your pH levels are crucial. Your pH level of 7.6 is fine. pH can also have effects on your cycling. If it's below 7.0 then it could really slow down or even stall the cycling process. Sudden changes in pH can be fatal to your fish.

Here is a link with great information concerning pH:

Adjusting pH in the Freshwater Aquarium - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish
Best wishes.
Ken

jdhef

Ken, just to avoid confusion the OP's ph is really 8.0. He posted ph at 7.6 (the highest value the std API ph test measures), and a High Range ph of 8.0. (The high range API tests for a ph between 7.4 and 8.something). I've seen quite a few members here confused by the two ph tests that are included with the API Master Test Kit.

chunkdaddy

I did a 30% water change Sunday and a 50% water change both Monday and today. Readings are the same, however, I added Seachem Prime and Stabilizer with todays change. Hopefully that will improve my readings tomorrow. The water already looks cleaner than it did after my other changes.

My mother-in-law gave me a 10 gallon tank that had been sitting in her basement for 20-30 years. Looks like it might have some mold in it. Can I use chemicals to get rid of the mold? She also had 4 old air pumps and 3 heaters. Don't know if their any good but I'll have to try them. Might tanks water is usually between 70-74 without a heater, so I don't think I really need to use one in this smaller tank.

chunkdaddy

I also starting adding aquarium salt with every water change on Sunday.

It's been about an 1 1/2 hr's since I did my water change and my fish seem less stressed. I have 2 longtailed golden zebra danios, one about twice as big as the other. The big one had been chasing all the other fish around for the last day or so, buy now he's just swimming along peacefully. Looks like prime and stabilizer are really helping!

Prince Powder

You can clean out the old tank with a solution made up of 1 part bleach and 19 parts water. RINSE THOROUGHLY! then if you can still smell bleach, rinse some more. After you've rinsed it really, really good, rinse it again then just let it dry. If the tank becomes usable after a good cleaning and proves to hold water without leaks I would recommend moving your stock to the 10 gallon (so long as you have a filter for it) and start your cycle there. Your fish would greatly appreciate the swim space. Your 5 gallon tank would make a lovely home for a smaller fish that prefers to be kept alone like a betta Fish, a dwarf puffer, or even a Dwarf Frog.

chunkdaddy

Ok, just took new readings on my water today:
PH 7.6
PH hr 8.0
Ammonia 1.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate

I did a 50% water change yesterday, will do one later today. Have been adding Seachem Prime and Stabilizer, as well as aquarium salt with water changes every day. Ammonia had been at 4.0 b/4. Water temp is now 77degrees.

locoyo386

Hi there, the only reason that your levels are low is because of the water changes. Do not confused that with the tank being cycled. The ammonia will and has to reach what the normal level is without water changes in order to have sufficient bacteria to break it down, same goes for nitrites. One way you can do that is by reducing the amount of water that you change each time or increase how part you change the water. I have used API's Zyme with great success in a newly cycling tank. I would recomend using it.

Also noticed that the regular water changes should be about 10% everyother week or so. Thus when you reach that and the ammonia and nitrites are zero, you will be fine.

Also with regards to the water temperature, if the tank remains at a constant 78 degrees farenheight or so, without the need of a heater, than you will be ok. If the tempratures varies significant like it drops to 67 degrees at night, than you will need a heater.

jdhef

I respectfully disagree with locoyo386. You should continue doing daily 50% water changes until fully cycled. You need to keep the ammonia levels low so that your fish don't get harmed.

Additionally, Stress Zyme contains the wrong kind of bacteria, and will actually compete with the proper bacteria.

And lastly, as I mentioned in my previous post, your ph is 8.0 there are not two ph's, just API doesn't make a single test that can test for the full ph scale required.

It would be similar to having two termaters. One would measure temperature from 0 degrees to 55 degrees. The second High Range therometer would measure for 50 degrees to 100 degrees. If you put them in a room with a temperature of 75 degrees, the low range themometer would read 55 degrees (the highest value it measures). The High Range Therometer would read the correct 75 degrees (since it falls within the range it measures for)

Prince Powder

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with locoyo. While I do agree that your levels are low due to water changes, I would not agree that you should decrease your water changes at all. Since you have fish in the tank you NEED to keep the levels low. In fact, keeping the ammonia levels at around .25 during the cycle would be ideal. It will lengthen the amount of time it takes for the tank to cycle, but it will keep your fish alive and safe which is the most important thing.

I would also have to disagree with his regular maintenance schedule of 10% every other week. Fresh, clean water is the most important part of keeping an established tank healthy. It is your first step in preventing illnesses from infecting your tank. It is of particular importance with smaller tanks which lack the water volume and floor space to properly distribute and dilute things in the water. Water changes should be about 25% weekly as a minimum. Smaller tanks, particularly when they are heavily stocked or contain high waste producers often require either larger, or more frequent changes than even that. Some people who have much larger and much more established tanks might be able to get away with water changes every other week, particularly if the tank is planted, but I would not recommend such practices for a new tank, particularly with a new fish keeper who doesn't have as trained an eye as someone more experienced.

Also I would advise against using API Stress Zyme+. Much like the Bio-Boost I commented on previously, it does not contain the correct bacteria to cycle your tank. IMO it would cause more harm than good and will set you back to square 1 in the cycle. The ONLY bacterial additive I would recommend is Tetra Safe Start. It is the only additive that contains the correct bacteria and the only one that will truly cycle a tank.

Lucy

Cycling sure is frustrating, isn't it. Sometimes we tend to make it more complicated than it needs to be.
There are too many products on the market that claim to do this or that and salespeople who claim you need these products.

Imo, if you have fish in the tank, water changes are necessary to keep the toxic levels down.
The only product you need is a good water conditioner (such as Prime) that detox's ammonia for 24 hours between water changes.

If you continue that regimen with out adding unnecessary products, it's make things easier on you and the fish.

Maybe this will clear up your confusion between the pH test
If your pH is 7.6 and you use API pH test, READ THIS

What is stabilizer and what does it claim to do? Why are you adding salt?

I totally agree with the above posters about Stress Zyme. Save your money.

Hang in there, many of us were in the same position at some point.

chunkdaddy

Lucy,
I heard that adding aquarium salt help prevent fish diseases and also helped with the nitrogen cycle.

It's actually Seachem Stability. Its supposed to help speed up the nitrogen cycle like Tetra Safe Start.

By the way, my nitrates where at 5 today. I'm still doing 50% water changes daily until further notice.

Prince Powder

Seachem Stability is a bacterial additive that claims to help cycle a tank, but it actually only gives you false readings because it does not contain the correct bacteria. Unfortunately adding Stability starves out the real beneficial bacteria and does not allow your tank to properly cycle. I would recommend you stop using it and stick to just the water changes with Prime.

Aquarium salt is a highly debated thing in the aquarium world. Some freshwater fish do benefit from salt in the tank, but most often it is better to go without. Salt as a disease preventative is also debatable. Many suggest that by exposing your fish to salt on a regular basis it actually reduces the effectiveness of using salt as a treatment. Basically the infecting agent strengthens to accommodate the higher salinity and for those times where something as simple as salt can heal wounds or illness, the infecting agent is now immune. Also be advised that salt does not dissipate over time so you can end up with more salt in your tank than you intended. To my knowledge, salt does nothing to help with the nitrogen cycle.