BrianKC

I am setting up a new aquarium and your help has been terrific. Thank you. I had been getiing higher than recommended tests and wondered if anyone can tell me what to do. I added Prime that Lucy recommended and tested this morning (after about 12 hrs). Got readings of 1ppm ammonia, 5 nitrite, 10 nitrate. I got the old sponge filter out of my moms established tank and let it float for about 5 hours. Readings of 1 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite and 0 Nitrate.
Should I do a partial water change with Prime or am I just being impatient. I thought the cycling was immediate once I introduced (floated) the old sponge. Should I do a partial water change with Prime. There are no fish in the tank. I assume these levels are too off to intoduce fish.

Thanks in advance.

soccermatt

Yes your levels not good enough yet to add fish. You don't need to do water changes if you don't have fish in your tank (unless you ammonia or nitrite levels are very high), as it will just slow down the process. You look like you are defiantly doing well, and i would leave the sponge in you tank until you seem completely cycled. It is also helpful if you leave the sponge some where like by your filter, where there is a lot of water flow.

Good luck with your tank.

BrianKC

Thanks. Luck I will need.

Furallicah

Might I ask what you are using to cycle your tank? Its is pure ammonia, or some shrimp or something like that. Or are you just feeding your tank? Prime...and you dont have fish? I wouldnt do that. Prime is ment to help fish if you dont have any in your tank then do not worry about it. If you were using fish then you need to use prime once a day and with in 24hours you need to do a water change. But again if you dont have fish your just wasting your bottle of prime. Good idea on the sponge from your Mom's tank that will help out a ton with cycling. Like Matt said put it near your filter where water flows faster. If you can cut the sponge and add it right into your filter. That will help transfer the bacteria much faster. Just make sure you put it behind the filter so the bacteria transfer over and not just go into the water. Good luck with your cycling....cycling is so annoying but it is worth it!! I promise!

BrianKC

I think I got bad advice from the start. Petsmart told me to add stress zyme whick I did and the tank would be ready in a week. I didnt know anything about cycling till I found this site. All I've done is dechlorinate the water, added stress zyme once in the beginning, then added the prime yesterday and introduced the old filter today. The filter is bigger than the one in my tank, but I might try cutting it down. I will be bringing the fish from my moms established tank to this one. Should I add some of her water when I add the fish? Also cant get the temp in my tank above 74 degrees. Do you think that is warm enough for tropical fish? Thanks for your help

BrianKC

Sorry, to answer your other question, I havent done anything like the ammonia thing or the hanging shrimp. Just found out about that. Is that something I should be doing? Thanks

rt12

When trying to get levels down with prime your test readings will still remain the same for nitrite and nitrate because it only detoxifys them which is as good as removing it for the most part. Prime also doesn't get rid of it all at once but works great over an extended period of time. Prime would also probally slow down the cycling since its acting before the benefical bacteria on your sponge/media can grow. I would say you should stop using prime and just run your tank for another week to 2 weeks before you add any fish. Speeding up cycling is almost impossible sometimes if not all, but adding a new sponge could help.

JSK

I agree with all of the above.

1. Don't do water changes.

2. Keep the sponge in there, and like it says above, try to get it so water from your tank flows through it and into the filter. You want to use it to provide the first bacteria that will enter your filter and then establish itself in there.

3. Keep checking the water. You said that you were at 10 PPM mitrate and then you added the sponge and you were at 0 ppm nitrate...that can't be correct, because the bacteria in the sponge can't process nitrate. CHeck to make sure you are dong the nitrate test right (SHAKE the bottle...A LOT). It should only go up at this point, not down.

4. Don't us prime unless you have fish. Treat/dechlorinate any water you put in there, but otherwise no need to add it.

5. Wait. My cycle went fast and it took 4 weeks. You don't need luck...just patience!

EDIT: I just saw your answer to a question, so....

6. Add a source of ammonia. Shrimp is popular. I used pure chemical ammonia so I could control the amount precisely. Either works, but you need to feed ammonia to the tank, so the bacteria have something to feed them.

Furallicah

Well if you dont have anything in your tank then it will never cycle and just sit there. So a fishless cycle is good just take a shrimp cut it a few times put it into some panitehose and place it into your tank at about midlevel so as it decays it produces ammonia which will get your tank a cycling. Mind you though...it will smell. If you wanted to do a fish cycle then you need to get one...maybe two fish depending on the size and add them into your tank. Use prime to keep them safe from the ammonia and nitrite for 24hours, then you need to do about a 25% water change and add another thing of prime. Also stress zyme isnt any good it does not have the correct bacteria in it. Which means you would have to add it every day to make your tank work. I would advise the fishless cycle with the shrimp...but remember it will smell a little.

BrianKC

Thanks. I'll retest my readings. I had been getting bad ammonia and nitrate readings but the nitrate was fine. Now the Nitrite looks fine with bad ammonia and nitrate. Is 74 a safe temperature? When I was a kid, I threw goldfish in a bowl and that was pretty much it. What is the world coming to Thanks

Lucy

Hi Brian.
Just for everyone's reference, here's Brian's first thread:
Starting a tank and I'm confused

Are you talking about the readings from your mom's tank or your new tank?
I don't know why you would have ammonia readings in the new tank if all you did was add the old filter media.
Have you tested your tap water?

When you added the filter media from your mom's tank, you were to add the guppies as your ammonia source.

What type of heater are you using for your tank?

JSK

Brian,

I noticed in your profile that you say you don't know about the nitrogen cycle...if you are still confused, read this: http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm . It can help.

Nitrate: you don't care about that yet, because you don't have fish. In fact, you WANT the nitrate to climb because that means the ammonia is being processed into nitrite, and the nitrite is being processed into nitrate. Nitrate is then removed by you during water changes (once you have fish!). WHen I cycled my 55 gallon, I hit more than 80 ppm nitrate by the end.

The right temperature depends on what you want to put in the tank. Goldfish do fine at cooler temperatures, most tropical fish are happy somewhere between 70-80 degrees F...it depends on the fish. I keep mine at 78 degrees.

For cycling, higher temperatures are better...the bacteria grow faster. Crank your heater up to get above 80 degrees, then turn it down when you are ready to add fish.

Also, a great guide for fishless cycling: Ammonia instructions for a fishless cycle

I used the first method and my tanked cycled in 4 weeks, give or take.

Good Luck!

Furallicah

And no I do not think 74 degrees is a good tempature for any tropical fish. I wouldnt go lower then 76 degrees for any tropical fish. They live best at anything higher then 75 despite what your LFS may say.

BrianKC

Hi Lucy, I told you I would be back No I didnt add the fish, I was afraid to because of my readings. I didnt want to kill them. Is that the problem? I'll add them if you think its safe. I bought a top fin for a 30 gallon tank and it wouldn't get above 66 degrees so I took it back. I found an old one at my moms house and its got a meter on it that you can set the temperature. I've had it cranked up to about 90 for a couple of days and so far 74 is about all I can get out of it. Should I get a bigger heater than the 150 watt recommended. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR HELP !

Lucy

I just don't understand where the ammonia reading is coming from.
What test kit are you using?

If all you've added was tap water and the used sponge, it would be a good idea to test your tap water.

Maybe I missed this, or just don't remember (probably lol) what size tank is the new one?

Furallicah

I have to agree with Lucy I was confused about the random ammonia readings....with nothing in your tank it should be 0 unless its your tap water.

BrianKC

It's a 30 gallon tank. On another members recommendation I retested from earlier tonight and got ammonia 1 nitrite 0 and nitrate about 5. I'm using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Thanks

JSK

Brian, As you can tell, we can't figure out where your ammonia is coming from. I have tested my tap and it comes out more than 0, less than 0.25 ppm ammonia. 1 ppm would be very high for tap water. So, if your tank is at 1 ppm, either you have very high tap water ammonia, or SOMETHING in the tank is providing nitrogen.

EDIT - It might be worth testing your tap water fresh from the faucet just to see what it is.

Furallicah

confued...was this an existaning tank....are you using an old filter system...did you add water from another tank...? I dont understand why there is any reading if you just set it up

BrianKC

I havent tested the tap water, but will. The only things in the tank are all plastic decorations and gravel. Do you think it was the Stress Zyme I put in on day 1. Should I just be patient and keep testing? Thanks.

BrianKC

The tank I cant get the ammonia down on is new. The sponge floating is from my moms established tank and is now floating in mine. I havent added any of her water. Lucy recommended that I put some of her gravel in pantyhose and hang in my tank, but I havent done that yet.

Lucy

Furallicah, read the link to the other thread.
Brian's mom sadly passed away.
She had a tank with guppies
Brian is setting up a new tank at his house for the guppies.

In the other thread, I recommended he move the filter media and the guppies to the new tank at the same time.

In confusion, he only moved the filter media......not the fish.

Whew..... Brian, that's it in a nut shell, right? lol

At the moment, we're trying to figure out where the ammonia in the new tank came from.

BrianKC

correct. I'm in the process of testing the tap water now. should know in a minute

BrianKC

tap water test is 1.0

Lucy

Ahhh......that mystery is solved.

One thing.....with the #2 bottle nitrate bottle, the directions don't tell you, but you have to bang it on the side of the table and shake the heck out of it.
Unlike the other bottles, it contains crystals that really need to be mixed well.

Using a detoxing conditioner like prime will make the tank safe for 24hrs.
Once the tank is fully cycled, the bacteria should process the ammonia from your tap water in that amount of time.

BrianKC

The instructions on my kit did say to shake the bottle for 1 minute which I did. Got a good 0 reading on that. Nitrates seem to be between 0 and 5. Is the ammonia still at 1 because of the Prime? Do I just wait it out and keep testing? Thanks

Lucy

Yeah, the #2 nitrAte bottle says to shake, but you really have to beat it up too. lol

The Prime doesn't have anything to do with the readings. Prime detox's it doesn't remove it.

It's tough cycling when you already have ammonia in your tap water.
There are alternative water sources you can use, other members would have to help with that as I'm unsure of what they are.

I guess I can only say what I would do.....
Since you have ammonia in your tank (from the tap water)
Test everyday, when you get readings of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes with some nitrAtes
I'd do ahead and add the guppies along with the used gravel.

Will the used sponge fit inside your filter rather than float it?

Let's see if other members have better suggestions.

BrianKC

The sponge is bigger than mine but someone suggested cutting it down and putting it in. Do you think the hanging gravel thing would help? Sorry to be so lengthy, just dont get it yet. Thanks for all your help.

Lucy

In the other thread, I mentioned that seeding a tank would give almost an instant cycle. That was before we found out that your tap had ammonia.

No problem, cycling a tank is confusing. Then throw in ammonia in your tap makes it even more so.
Ask as many questions as you need, we really don't mind.

You can cut the sponge down to fit, that's a good idea.
You really could do either.....add the gravel now or wait and add it with the fish when your levels drop.

I'm sorry I can't give you a definitive answer.
Hoping others will chime in with some ideas.

BrianKC

THANK YOU. I promise not to pull up a chair and stare at the tank watching for ammonia levels to drop. Thanks again.