Bladewing

Hello!
I've been looking for someone to help me with this problem, and so far, no one has come through; I'm hoping I'll be able to get some good advice on this forum, so here I go;
I had a 20 gallon tank that had 1 X 20 gallon internal filter and 2X 10 gallon internal filters; all were seeded.
I bought a 40 gallon breeder tank and moved my fish along with the filters, and heater to the new tank. For the first week, everything seemed fine, but then I got an ammonia spike. I tried adding Seachem Prime to detox, but the ammonia is still high. I then changed 70% of the water, and no change at all. Right now, my reading are 8ppm for ammonia, 7.8 for pH, 0 PPM for nitrite, and around 10 ppm for nitrate. Despite these horrid readings though, all my fish, including my bolivian rams and platies which I hear are VERY sensitive to ammonia, are movinhg and acting normally and healthy. Does anyone know what I can do to lower the ammonia and also what caused the crash?

mommybaby295

I would keep adding the Prime daily, and keep doing the water changes. I haven't changed tanks, but I have read where others say that this has caused a mini-cycle for them as well. It's probably not that unusual.

I'm not familiar with the test kit you use. I use the API liquid tests for ammonia. I'm not sure - are the tests you use usually pretty accurate?

edit: And excuse my poor manners: Welcome to Fishlore. We're glad to have you here.

Lucy

Welcome to FishLore
Yikes on that ammonia!
How long did you seed the used filters? Was the 20g cycled?
Did you move the gravel from the 20 to the 40?
Did you add any new fish to the 40g or is it the same stock you had in your 20?
Looking at your fish, it really shouldn't have over powered the bacteria like it seems to have done.
Prime will detox for 24 hours but your test will still pick it up.
I see that you're using the strips. Personally, I find them inaccurate and would recommend getting a good liquid test kit.
Have you tested your tap water?

Sorry for all the questions, the answers might help figure this out.
All I can recommend right now is daily water changes until you get the cycle back.

Best of luck.

Shawnie

welcome to fishlore!!
great advice from others....im just wondering how reliable your test kit is though as 8ppm ammonia, would definitely kill the fish...theres no way to survive such rises unless you overdose daily with prime..and as lucy said, with those fish, unless you ran that tank for months without water changes, and overfed every day, that ammonia still wouldnt be that high...think about an api liquid kit for ammonia at least ...if you can get the master kit thats even better!
good luck

Bladewing

Sorry for the confusion!
I'm using API liquid tests for nitrite, nitrate, and pH.
I did not move any water or gravel from the old 20 to the new 40.
The 20 gallon was established for about 5 months and all filters were seeded.
The fish in the 40 at the moment were in the 20 gal. no new fish have been added.
I'm planning to buy a liquid API test kit to test ammonia in my tap water.
Thank you all for the warm welcome!
I really appreciate all your help mommybaby295, Lucy, and Shawnie!

Bladewing

I think I know what happened now after taking more tests.
I bought the liquid test kit that many of you suggested for the ammonia, and it showed 0 ppm. So my live meter is showing only ammonium caused by hte Prime.
I guess after I saw that little spike in ammonia initially (which was the start of a mini cycle) in my stupidity I added Prime. It turned the ammonia into ammonium which the bacteria could not eat. I added it during my water changes (tap water has 0 ppm) and any ammonia excreted by my fish was changed by Prime into ammonium, which kept showing up on my meter. I'm pretty sure because of this, I nuked my bacteria, so I'm gonna have ot start from scratch. Now I'm worried that as soon as I stop adding Prime, all that ammonium is going to change into AMMONIA! Are there any products that might be able to help me without the backlash Prime gave me?

Lucy

Prime doesn't hurt the cycle, it detox's the ammonia, but it's still available to the bactreria.
If it did, many of us would have lost our cycle long ago.
Most likely it was not moving the gravel over or at least putting it in clean stocking and leaving it the new tank to seed. You lost quite a bit of bacteria that way.

Bladewing

So ammonium is can still be used to establish a cycle in place of ammonia? So if that is the case, then would adding Prime and daily water changes be the key to helping my tank get through the cycle?

mommybaby295

Yes! Adding Prime and daily water changes is going to help keep your fish safe while your tank is cycling. Prime will basically leave the ammonia in the tank, so the beneficial bacteria can feed on it, but render it harmless to the fish for 24 hours. That is why daily doses of Prime are recommended. The water changes will keep the ammonia levels lower, as the new water shouldn't have any ammonia (although some tap water does have a bit).

This method slows down the cycle a little bit, since you don't have as much ammonia in the tank with the daily water changes. But your fish stay safer, so it is worth it.

Lucy

Yes, for sure.
In post #6 you said you have 0 ammonia? What's your nitrite and nitrate reading?

Just a note worth mentioning. I'm not sure about other test kits but the API ammonia test can't distinguish between ammonium and ammonia, meaning if you have ammonium, it'll read as ammonia.

Bladewing

After the HUGE water change I did last night, nitrite was 0 and nitrate was at 5 ppm, which is the level found in our tap water.
Concerning the API liquid test kit, it keeps showing 0 ppm. Every time I did a test, and I did about 5 last night and 1 in the morning, it keeps showing 0 ppm. I made sure it worked by taking a beaker of water straight from the tap and adding one drop of pure ammonia, which it read immediately, so I'm pretty sure it works. But my live meter test strip on the inside of the tank is saying I have 5< levels of ammonia! I'm really confused, because if the strip is lying to me, then all I've been doing is messing with my water chemistry for no reason.
Edit: All the readings, aside from the ones I'm getting from the strip, use API liquid test kits.

mommybaby295

I would be inclined to trust the API kit over the strip, especially since you've verified that it is working properly.

jdhef

Test strips are notorious for being inaccurate. I would go by what the API test is telling you.

omnitheforsaken

I don't think you've lost your cycle at all. If API is giving you 0 then I'd go with that. If you want verification, you can get something else to verify it like the Ammonia Alert by Seachem. But all the signs show that you're fine. That is... the fish are fine, and the API test kit is giving you 0 for ammonia.

Bladewing

I just took several tests with every result listed being from API liquid test kits;
Ammonia; 0ppm
Nitrite; 0 ppm
Nitrate; 5 ppm (The level of my tap water, which is probably from a large and extensive water change I did yesterday)
pH; 7.6 > (A little high, should I use a pH reducer?)
The test strip, of course, still says I have a large amount of ammonia, but now the strip is two colors, the bottom being blue and the top being dark green, when it should be one solid color....

Lucy

The one thing I wonder about is the nitrate test. The tap tests at 5, your tank should have a higher reading.
With the #2 nitrate bottle, you really have to bang it around to get the crystals mixed correctly.

Edit: Just saw your last post. The water change could explain the nitrate reading. To be on the safe side, test again tomorrow.

Bladewing

Just want to go into more detail about the large water change I made.
I took out about 75-80% of the tank water.
Then I added about 3 gallons of water into the tank and ran one filter to mix the water.
I then took out those same 3 gallons and replaced them with another 3 gallons from the tap.
I did that 4 times because I was trying to dilute the ammonia infested water my strip said I had.

mommybaby295

You shouldn't use pH chemicals in your tank. Most fish will adapt to your pH, and sudden pH changes can be very damaging to the fish. If you want to naturally lower the pH, I think driftwood in your tank would help.