Jesskb

Hello everyone,
My name is Jesse and I have this awesome black moor named Borris. Sadly, like many people new to goldfish keeping, I have been mistreating Borris without knowing. I got him from Walmart over a year ago, and he's grown big and strong. Of course the guy who sold him to me didn't tell me how to properly take care of him and he's been living in a 3 gallon tank for the last year. I know this is bad, I just didn't know until recently. I've just went out and got him a 10 gallon tank, which is as big as I'm allowed here at college. I was just going to wait 24 hours and put him in the new tank, but I've now discovered there is this thing called cycling. Again, sorry for my ignorance. Should I cycle the tank first, and leave him in his tiny tank until it's done, or should I put him in the new big tank right away? Andy help is really appreciated. I want to do what's best for Borris, as he's pretty dear to me.

Tropical Aquarist

Definatley cycle the tank. You can cycle the tank by setting up the tank and putting some fish food in the tank. This will create amonia, then it will turn in to nitrate and then into nitrite. After about two-three weeks the tank should be good and ready for Borris. You could also get another, smaller goldfish to help the cycling go faster and then get rid of it after a while.
Hope this helps

Lucy

Welcome to FishLore
Congrats on doing some research and getting Borris a larger tank.
I guess you found out he really needs more than a 10g, but being the college has restrictions, not much you can do about it.

I have to respectfully disagree with tropical aquarist. Getting another fish just to cycle a tank then getting rid of it, Imo, is wrong.
If you want to cycle the tank without Borris here's Four Methods of Fish Less Cycling

My suggestion would be see if you can get some Tetra SafeStart. Is about the only bacterial additive members have had luck with.
You'd add it and Borris at the same time.
Be very wary of any other products that claim to cycle your tank, most are a waste of money.
or
Since obviously you're doing frequent water changes in his bowl, you could go a head and put him in the tank and do daily water changes until the tank is cycled.
Normally, I wouldn't recommend cycling with fish but I imagine he doesn't have much room in the bowl. Again, just my opinion, he's not going to be exposed to any more ammonia than he already is as long as you change the water daily.

Here's a basic explanation of the nitrogen cycle:
First your ammonia (from fish waste and left over food) will rise.
In a few weeks bacteria will start to develop and you'll see the nitrite levels rise and the ammonia levels start to drop.
After a few more weeks a different kind of bacteria begins to develop and you'll see the nitrate levels rise and the nitrite levels drop.
Ammonia and nitrites are toxic to your fish.
So until your cycle is complete, you need to keep the levels down with 50% daily water changes.
Using Prime as your water conditioner will detox the ammonia for 24 hrs between water changes.
When you having readings of 0 on both ammonia and nitrites with some nitrates showing, your cycle is done.

Since you have two different opinions, lets see what others have to say and you can choose which you feel is best for you.

Best of luck

aquarist48

Hello Jess and Welcome to Fish Lore! Question: Is there a filter on his current 3g home? Gravel in it? If Borris currently has filtration in his 3g home then I would suggest moving the filter, gravel, into the 10g aquarium and add him to it also. It may help to speed up the cycling process. (you can add the gravel into nylon hose that has "never" seen soap and place it in the tank. That way you can use whatever gravel/substrate you want in the 10g and the old gravel can be removed a little at a time once your cycle is good and strong.)

I agree with Lucy:
If Borris is in a bowl that isn't cycled, then go ahead and move him into the 10g. Either way water changes are going to have to be done to prevent ammonia poisoning. It might be a bit easier to do water changes in the bowl but then if you moved him he would enjoy the extra space I'm sure. I don't see a need to keep him in the 3g if neither are cycled.

Jess, Lucy gave you "great" tips on cycling and cycling information. If you have more questions don't hesitate to ask. We love photos!

Sorry Tropical Aquarist, I wouldn't expose another fish to the cycling process.

Best of luck to you and Borris!
Ken

peacemaker92

WELCOME TO FISHLORE, Jesse!

Great advice and info above. Hope everything turns out well and your cycle will go smoothly. Keep us updated and don't forget photos

Jesskb

Thanks so much everyone! I still have just a couple questions left. Yes, he does have filtration on his current tank, so I could flip the filter,gravel, plants over into the new tank to help jump start the process. But the old filter came with a kit for the 3 gallon tank. I don't think it would provide proper filtration. I could take the top off the tank and put both filters on, but I don't want him jumping out. I get paid on Friday so I can go get a testing kit then. If I put him over today with all the old gravel and stuff, and do a 50% water change everyday until I can get the testing equipment, would that be alright?

Again thank you all so much! Borris and I greatly appreciate it

aquarist48

Hello Jess. Yes you can move everything over from the 3g to the 10g. Before you add the additional water, make sure it's as close to the same temperature as what is in the new tank. When you have the means then you can add the additional filter. Keeping up with your water changes will surely help prevent him from ammonia poisoning. This is what has kept him alive this long I'm sure If you happen to have a water conditioner called Prime would help even more. Don't forget to remove the chlorine from the new water before it goes into the tank.

Run both filters for at least 2 weeks, preferably a bit longer. Or you can remove the filter media from the old filter and place it in the tank or the new filter itself. This is saving your good bacteria that the tank needs to process the ammonia.

Keep us posted. I'm sure Borris is going to enjoy his new home.
Ken

Lucy

Ken, good question and answer about the filter. I wrongly asummed the 3g didn't have one.

Jesskb

Thanks again guys! I put the old filter, his decoration, and a nylon with some of the gravel from the old tank into the new tank. He seems to be doing ok, he is swimming at the top of the tank a lot, I hope that doesn't mean anything bad. As I'm a poor college kid, I don't have the money to buy the testing equipment until Friday. Until then I will just do 50% water changes everyday. Sound like an ok plan then? The help you've given me is so appreciated. I love Borris and I want to spend a lot more time with him. I just feel so bad that he was in that little tank for over a year. He came down with ICH right after I bought him (got him from walmart, so go figure) but I nursed him through that and he doubled in size shortly after. He also went from pitch black to bright orange completely unexpected for me, but it's cool.

Thanks again,
Jess

Jesskb

Guys,
Borris has died. This is so terrible. I wish I would have left him in the three gallon tank. I don't know what happened. I followed your instructions to the T. About two hours after placing him in the new tank he got red lines going down his tail which I know means poisoning, and his under throat got all red. I did an emergency water change. It was no use he was dying so I held him near the filter so he could get the best oxygen flow, and he died there in my hand. I can't believe I'm so upset over a goldfish dying. I didn't even feel this bad when my dog died. He was a big part of my apartment for the last 1.5 years. I never should have taken him out of his old tank. I thought this would be better for him, and I though I was doing it right. This truly sucks.

aquarist48

Oh no Jess. I'm so sorry. I know what you must be going through The red streaks you speak of is called Septicemia caused by over exposure to ammonia poisoning and or high nitrites. Here is a link that describes Septicemia in greater detail:
Septicemia in Koi and Goldfish Ponds this also applies to aquariums. I seriously doubt that leaving him in the bowl would have kept him alive. Keeping him in the bowl may have stunted his growth and really shortened his life as well. You did the right thing by trying to give him a larger home. Don't be so hard on yourself. We've all mad mistakes and most of us have been where you are now.
I wish there were more I could say.
Ken

jdhef

Jesskb, I'm very sorry Borris didn't make it. I seriously doubt that it was caused by the move, since his living conditions actually improved. I also wanted to tell you after reading the first post in this thread not to feel bad about having him in too small a bowl etc. The advice that is given out at almost all Petstores is terrible, and almost everyone on this forum started out wrong due to bad advice given from the petstores.

But now that you have that 10 gallon tank, it's time to start thinking about putting some new fish in there. And now that you've discovered FishLore you will be able to get up and running the correct way! With a 10 gallon tank, you are somewhat limited on what you can put in there, but you can still set up a very rewarding tank.

One option would be to put a betta in there. And even though Betta's usually do not do well with other fish, sometimes you can get away with putting a small school of Cories in with one. Or you could put a Dwarf Gourami in there (I think they are okay in a 10, but you should read the profile for them on this site and verify. I could do it for you, but you know the old saying "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and you can sell him bait and tackle for a lifetime )

There are also some small schools you could keep in a 10 gallon. Just remember the general rule of thumb of 1" of adult size fish per gallon.

Tropical Aquarist

If your pH and water hardness is high, you could try a few shell dwellers or even a few julies in that tank. Let us know what you are thinking about buying! Keep us updated!

Lucy

I'm so sorry you lost the little guy.
Fish are moved from tank to tank all the time with no ill effects.
Normally improving their conditions will only help, not hurt.
I can only think of a few reasons this would have happened.
One such instance would be from Old tank syndrome. This is when the fish is being kept in extremely bad conditions (which I don't believe is the case with Borris). The fish adapts to those conditions and the change to good water is a shock to their system.
Possibly, a drastic change in the Ph or temp.
Soap, hand cream residue is also a possibility.

Either way, I'm really sorry RIP Borris.

mommybaby295

I'm so sorry, Jess! *hugs*

Jesskb

Thanks for the support guys! He was an excellent fish, and I will miss him. He had such great personality. But it's time to move on and look into the future. I have a tank and I hate seeing it empty, it's so sad. Should I clean it all out again, and start over? Or would it be ok to continue the cycling as it's going now? If there is any possibility that I contaminated the tank with soap residue or something, is there a way to test that?


So I will look to you guys for help in stocking my tank! I would love to get a new goldfish, as they are so personable, but 10 gallons seems too small to most people, so I'll pass on it. I think a community tank would be pretty interesting, and it would be fun to pick out individual fish for it. I don't know, I also like fish that have a lot of character, something I can call by name.

Here are a few fish I'm interested in:

Neons
pygmy cories
White cloud minnows
Endlers
Kuhli loaches
Ghost shrimp
Fancy guppies
Anything you guys recommend.

I would like to keep at least 2 species of fish. I'm not really interested in bettas or Platies though. And if you guys know of any fish that is personable like a goldfish, I would love to hear about it! I'm going to the pet store on Friday to get the testing equipment and a heater.

Thanks yet again,
Jess

mommybaby295

I've found corydora catfish to be personable. You could get 3 of those and 2 guppies.

Diggly

I am sorry to hear about Boris, you did the right thing and its not your fault pet shops are bad at informing people.

I wouldnt get guppies yet until the tank is fully cycled - they are very sensitive, if I were you I would start a new thread and see what suggestions the other members have, they really are fantastic here with advice so stick with it!