Elvishswimmer

Hi all!
I've made a few posts here and there and have been lurking around here reading for a while and thought I should finally make another appearance and ask a few questions I've accumulated.

Firstly, I guess I'll introduce my tank:

I got this tank for my birthday a little over a week ago! My boyfriend got it for me as a surprise seeing as I have been wanting one for over a year. I was ecstatic to see it in my livingroom!! Its a 37G.

I've went and bought a few stuff like an API master test kit, and a gravel vaccuum, and mostly have been sitting around waiting for it to cycle. I'm using the ammonia method. I'm really anxious for those bacterias to grow!! I don't have any friends to loan me a decoration or something to speed it up.

So while I've been waiting I've decorated:


This was taken right when I finished decorating it all, the water has since turned a pale yellow, which I assume would be from the wood. That is ok for me though. I actually bought the wood the same time I got the test kit, and I found that my tap water actually has a quite high pH, around 8. I'm not sure if that is a little too high or not, but now with the wood in there it has since lowered to around 7.6.

So my questions! This is all from a Top Fin set up, from what I have read doesn't have the best of ratings.
When my boyfriend and I go to pick the fish (I'll tell you about that later ) we decided we will grab a new filter. The current is a Top Fin 40, which I mentioned that it isn't rated the best quality, and he mentioned that he thinks the motor is loud. I'm not sure if we will find one quieter, but we can try!
So I was wondering what is a good filter that has the most bang for its buck?
I would rather not spend a lot of money, but I still want a good quality one. I want my fishes to be happy, so I will pay the price if needed!
Also what GPH should I be looking for?
I know that if my tank has cycled that putting a new filter in it would make my tank re-cycle, so I will run both the Top Fin and the new one for a while till the other one develops.

My other question is about a Quarantine tank. I have a 10G that I inherited from my family. It has been sitting around for about 10 years now, so I'm not sure if that will affect the seals or anything.
It would be great if it could be a quarantine though, if quarantines are needed. My first fish I assume I can just throw straight into the main tank because, well they will be the first. But I have a feeling I might not find all the fish I want on my first time round (maybe if I'm lucky!) and so might want to add one or two later, and they would need a bit of a time off first. I can also see it good for a sick one.
So do you guys think this would be a good quarantine tank? If it is, I think I will get a filter good for the tank, and just run it in my main tank until it would be needed, so that I can just use the Q tank when needed and not have to worry about a sick fish having to live through a cycle too. What sort of GPH for the filter should I need for this tank? As well, what sort of general meds might I want to keep on hand for the fish?

Another question: Are all water conditioners made the same? The current one that came with my tank is Nutrafin Aquaplus. It is in a fairly small bottle and can see going through it pretty quick. Is there a better brand to use when I need to get more, or should I just go with the same?

Also, is there anything that people can recommend for a beginner? I have read through all the beginner guides on this site, and so might have heard most already, but just in case I would really love to know. I really want my fish to be safe, happy and healthy!

Now what fish I plan on getting! Because I imagine that would be help for answering a few of the questions.
I have a HUGE love for goldfish. I always spend my time in fish stores watching the goldies, or go to my friends house to just... sit and watch them!
So I'm hoping I can find a few fancies to fill my tank. I plan on only getting 3, as I'm pretty sure my tank can't handle much more.
The types I really enjoy are:
Black Moors (or other Telescopes)
Orandas
Ranchus.

I'm hoping that I might be able to get one of each for my tank. Do you think they will be compatible?
I also read of all the cool things you can feed goldfish. I'm so excited that I can sit munching on cucumbers and I watch them munching on cucumbers! I think I'll buy some nice goldfish pellets to start off, just as I get used to the whole fish-keeping business, but I hope to eventually make gel-food for them.

Well thanks for reading this super long post and taking the time to answer my Newbie questions! I am really liking this forum more and more. The people here just seem amazing. I'm part of a horse forum which is a great community and was a bit nervous of reaching into a new one, but people here seem in just as much of a great community!

Oh wait! Two more quick questions!
I would like to create a bit of a blog in the blog section of this forum. I sent an e-mail to mike, but no response. Any ideas?

And also over the summer I went to France and went to the world class aquarium in La Rochelle. I took a lot of pictures and was wondering if I should share them with you guys? What forum section should I post that into?

Thanks again!

eiginh

You can put your pictures either in the General Discussions or Member's Fish tank section. If either is wrong the mods will put it in the right one. They really are awesome! A top water conditioner that people use around here is Prime. As for the filter you can get a Aquaclear 50 which pumps 200gph built for 20-50 gallon tanks but since you have goldfish and are huge waste producers, try going for an Aquaclear 70 which pumps 300gph. Since you want goldfish you don't really need to worry about heating your tank. As for your 10g tank, try filling it up with water and check for leaks if everything is ok you can use it but make sure to clean it real good! You can use a regular size filter for that since it's only your Q/T tank perhaps an Aquaclear 20. Marineland also makes good filters, I use a penguin 150b for my 10g and an emperor 400 for the 40g. Both Aquaclear and Marineland are silent filters from my experience.

I can't see your pictures right now b/c work is blocks from photobucket and similar websites. I bet it looks great though

Lucy

Welcome to Fish Lore
Whew, that's a heck of a post! lol
I love your tank, it looks great!
Congrats on fish less cycling. Much healthier for fish and easier for you.
I don't know much about filters, so I'll leave that for other to answer.

Having the 10g as Q tank would be great. Once you add your first fish, any fish you get after that should be quarentined for at least 2 weeks to make sure they're healthy.
Hopefully the seal is still good. Just test it before you need it.
Running 2 filters in an established tank is a good idea. You could also just kep extra sponges and/or filter media in your established tank and put it in the Q filter when you're ready to set it up.

All water conditioners will detox chlorine. I've used all kinds. I prefer using Prime and Stress Coat.
Prime detox's ammonia for 24hrs so if you ever have an ammonia issue, it's good to have around.

When Mike get's your request, he'll set one up for you and probably notify you by e-mail.

We'd love to see the pics! You can post them here:
Misc. Photos

Don't be nervous, we're glad to have you as a member!

Edit: I see eiginh helped with the filter question!

Nutter

I would reccomend that you just bite the bullet & get an Eheim canister filter. They are near on bulletproof & are a reasonable price considering that it will likely outlast almost any other filter on the market as well as do an excellent job. Generally the rule is to pick a filter that will filter the entire volume of your tank 4-8 times per hour, so in your case you would be looking for a filter that has a turnover of 160-320GPH. I would reccomend the Ehiem Classic 2213.
I use API dechlorinator in all my tanks as it is very economical. It uses 1ml per 75lts to dechlorinate & there is a higher dose for removing heavy metals as well. Many on here seem to be fans of Prime but I have never used it so I can't reccomend for or against it.

To check the 10g tank out, just give it a clean, place it on newspaper on a flat surface & fill it to the absolute top. Make sure you don't spill any water on the newspaper. Leave it there for a couple of days & check occasionally to see if there is water on the outside of the tank or on the newspaper. I would just use a couple of air driven box filters on a tank for quarantine or a small internal filter of about 200lts/hr. You can leave the tank dry & not worry about cycling this tank. Most meds will kill off the bacteria in the filter anyway though there are a few that don't.

The goldies should all be fine together as far as I know. I'm no expert on them but I have never seen aggression between goldfish yet. Beware goldfish & live plants. Live plants are a fantastic way to feed goldfish & they will tear through them very quickly if you decide you want them in the future.

It sounds like you are getting yourself well prepared to give your future fish a comfortable life. I think they will be most happy with an owner like you that wants to do the best for them they possibly can.

Lucy

I agree Nutter!

eiginh

A cheaper canister filter would be the HOT magnum from marineland

Elvishswimmer

Thanks for all the quick responses!

I think I might stick with a non-canister filter for now if they work well.

I would LOVE to get a canister filter, but at $300... o.O
I am just a university student and even though I think it would be awesome, I'd like to say that eating for a month, or rent, comes before unloading such a large sum on something like that. Maybe when I get out of uni and find myself a job I can budget that in, but right now it just isn't an option.

Also another quick question.
How long do I leave the water change water in the bucket with the conditioner before adding to a tank with fish in it? Is it good to go right away?

Lucy

It's good to go right away, just make sure the temp is about the same as the tank water.

jdhef

Welcome to FishLore

Prices may be higher in "The Great White North", but I paid about $125 US for my Fluval 205 (which would be fine for your tank). Also, maybe you could just use your TopFin filter for your Q-Tank and save a few dollars.

Oh yeah, one other thing. Since you have lowered your tank water's ph by adding driftwood, you may need to be a little careful when doing water changes so that you don't shock the fish with rapid ph changes since your tap water will have a higher ph. I persoanlly don't know if this is a real concern, since I don't have anything in my tank that alters ph, but pleanty of members here do and hopefully they will chime in and tell you if you should be concerned and if so, what you should do.

eiginh

HOT magnum filters that hang on the back are less than 60 bucks rated for your tank and a bit higher. I know what you mean with the tight budget I'm a college student myself but fortunate with a full time job.

Elvishswimmer

Thanks for letting me know about that eiginh! Maybe I will shop around the fish store and see if I can find one for a good price!

Jdhef
And I actually never thought about using the Top Fin for the Q tank, duh! That would probably work great.
and thanks for alerting me about a potential pH problem! Will it be a huge deal? What can I do about it?

Kitsune

oooooh another person from Canadiana! Welcome to fishlore

peacemaker92

Great advice above. Everyone has got you covered Just wanna say, such a beautiful tank! I love the lighting! What lights are you using? The driftwood makes a good centerpiece too. Hope to see more pics when the fish arrive. Can't wait!

Best of luck!

aquarist48

Hello Elvis. Beautiful tank and a Happy Belated Birthday!

When you are selecting your filtration, keep in mind that your gallons per hour (GPH) should be 8 to 10 x's the volume of your tank. (I respectfully disagree with the above statement of 4 to 8x your volume. This would not be sufficient) So for a 37g tank your gph should be at least 300gph to 400gph. You can even go higher if you think the fish you plan to stock can handle the current.

Aqua Clear (AC) makes a great hang on back (HOB) filter. Very quiet too! The AC 70 has a 300gph and would probably do just fine on your tank. You can always add additional filtration if necessary.

Keep us posted!
Ken

Nutter

[quote=aquarist48;687653]

When you are selecting your filtration, keep in mind that your gallons per hour (GPH) should be 8 to 10 x's the volume of your tank. (I respectfully disagree with the above statement of 4 to 8x your volume. This would not be sufficient)

Respectfully also, I have 20 tanks that say 4-8x volume is ample. Most of them get water changes every 2 weeks & the nitrates NEVER stray above 20.
The only ones that I do weekly water changes on are my heavily stocked rift lake tanks & the nitrates in those stay under 10. I have had another 15 or so over the past 8years that I have used the 4-8x rule with & never had a nitrate problem.

Truth be told, turnover is far less important, at least IMO, than the quality of the filter & how easy it is for water to bypass the media inside it. The bacteria simply need enough water passing over them to provide them with ample oxygen & waste matter. I exclusivley use Ehiem filters & I always add to the biological media they come with, so maybe that is why I can get away with less turnover than some others.

Each to thier own though. What works for me won't always work for the next person. Every system is different.

jdhef

Nutter, I think with cannister filters you can get away with a lowerer GPH turnover than you can with HOB's. The reason being that there is no way for water to bypass the media in a cannister like it can in a HOB. Also, generally cannisters hold more media than HOBs.

Elvishswimmer

Thanks again! I'll keep that in mind! Low GPH is ok for canisters, higher is reccommended for HOB.
Do canisters make "bubbles" like HOB filters? Will I need to get an aeration stone?

Thanks for the compliments peacemaker. I'll let you know what lights I have when I came home. They really just came with the Tank package though. I really liked that piece of driftwood and just HAD to have it. It has a lot of nice hiding places, that will be nice for the goldies, while they are small at least.
The lights haven't been on at all, other than for those pictures, I need to get me a power bar soon. I figured it would be ok off while it was cycling, to keep algae to a minimum

jdhef

My cannister doesn't make any bubbles, so I have an airstore.

Nutter

Wether or not you need an airstone depends on how you set up the filter you choose & the stocking level of the tank. An airstone may not be needed if there is a fair bit of surface movement being cause by the filter. Oxygen enters the water through surface exchange, not the introduction of oxygen bubbles into the tank. The bubbles from an air pump are not in contact with the water for long enough for there to be any significant exchange of oxygen into the water. The bubbles from airstones push water upwards increasing surface movement. On the other hand if a tank is heavily stocked or warm weather raises the water temps, then an airstone may be required to increase surface agitation. You may also want one purely for decorative purposes.

omnitheforsaken

Sounds like you got a lot of good advice, hopefully not confusing. As far as your pH issue goes, I don't think you have anything to worry about doing a standard water change. A small waterchange shouldn't hit your pH like a ton of bricks. I would just make sure that the point where your pH stabilizes is identified. I added driftwood to one of my tanks and the pH dropped and dropped with no end in sight over the course of a month. But the good thing about pH is that it's easy to control. You can look into buffers (natural and/or chemical) if you're concerned about your pH.

I personally recommend the AquaClear HOB filters. I swear by them and will never use any other HOB filter. The one's I have are so quiet that I used to think that they weren't working. If you go the HOB filter route, I suggest you get 2 filters instead of 1. This will give you a backup incase you need to shut 1 down temporarily. So, instead of 1 AC 70 for example. You can get 2 AC 50's or something like that.

That being said, I've never used a canister filter so I can't give you any insight into them.

About the airstone, Nutter is right. I would consider using live plants to provide the required oxygen for the fish. They will do that and also help remove/utilize the nitrates that will build up in the tank.

Elvishswimmer

Thanks Nutter! Makes sense about the airstone. I may want one for decoration later, but right now I might keep as is, I'll see how my tank set up works with whatever new filter I get.

And thanks for the pH advice omni! I'll maybe look into some natural buffers to stabilize the water if I notice it drop too much. I'm sure that with regular water changes it shouldn't drop TOO low, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on it.

Seeing as I have NEVER taken care of fish before, I want to make sure I get that down pat before I get plants. Not to mention the goldies will probably tear them up pretty good too (or so I've heard). I'll keep them in mind maybe for the future though. I really like plants and an underwater garden sounds intriguing, maybe if I get another non-goldie tank in the future!

marble26

Elvish, I think you have the wrong idea about bubbles/air stones. In actuality, these add very little direct oxygen to your tank. What they actually do is circulate the water and keep the waters surface from filming over. Most of the oxygen in the water takes place through absorbtion at the water surface. A bubble source in your aquarium does add a nice touch and some fish like to play in them. An HOB filter or canister that has the return set in such a way as to break the surface tension of the water accomplishes the same thing. One other thing concerning the filter and GPH rates..some ornamental goldfish aren't very good swimmers and can struggle if there is too strong of flow in your tank. If you decide on this type, you will have to comprimise to a lower flow filter and most likely have to do more water changes as a result. Those types of fish are really nice looking but a little more work. Good luck.

aquarist48

Hello Elvis. I also have the Magnum H.O.T. (hang on tank) filter w250gph. The out take tube (where the water comes out of the filter and into the tank) is positioned right at the surface of the water and generates a lot of surface water movement. An air stone would not be necessary in my opinion. I feel it would be a bit shy of what you need gph (gallons per hour) wise for your tank but as long as you're not over stocked then it may do just fine (around $60 as mentioned in another post). Not only can you use the HOT filter around the clock, it comes with an additional "micron cartridge" for water polishing and it filters down to the micron. The filter media that you use around the clock can be placed inside the tank while you use the micron cartridge for a few hours. I'm still partial to the Aqua Clear HOB (hang on back) though. Both of these filters are extremely quiet.
Please keep us updated on your progress!
Ken

Elvishswimmer

Well, for an update. I think I added WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY x 10 too much ammonia.
So when I get home tonight I'm going to do a water change and get the ammonia level around 4.0 or so and then keep it there. I've read that the bacteria can get a negative feedback if there is too much ammonia, so I'll keep it around 4 and hopefully I'll start getting some nitrites soon.

I don't imagine my tank will cycle before this weekend, but I might go and check out the LFS that I was reccommended in the area and see how their fish look and check out the filters there to get my new one.

There is another fish store that I went to, it was where I got most of my decorations. I went to look at the goldfish and wasn't very happy with them. They had new arrivals that said they weren't ready for sale yet, but they were ALL covered in white fungus looking things. The ones that were for sale there were many that looked like they had swim bladder problems and were floating around or swimming on their sides, and just overall didn't look healthy. I don't think I'll be wanting to get my fish from there.

From the sounds of it, this other place is MUCH better, so I look forward to checking it out!

Lucy

Be patient, it can take up to a month to cycle a tank.
Good idea about the water change.
Remember, we use ammonia to kill bacteria in our homes. Too much can do the same in our tanks.

Nutter

I agree with Lucy, be patient. I will go a step further & say outright that you shouldn't put any fish in there yet. You have the ability to do the fishless cycle, so follow the full course of it & your fish will not be at risk when you get them.

Elvishswimmer

I totally agree with you nutter.
I meant just going to the fish store to see how the fish look there, and to get the new filter I want. If the fish don't look like they are treated well there, then it's off to find another store!

I would never put the fish in there the way it is now though. I just took out 15G of water (about a 40% change) and the ammonia is still at the 8.0 colour of the API test kit. And because 8.0 is the highest range, I bet that my ammonia is still off the charts.

I wouldn't wanting to be breathing air with that much ammonia in it that's for sure. Let alone let other things breathe that, I'm sure they would die within 10 seconds.

I ran out of water conditioner (it was just a trial 30mL bottle that came with the tank). And if there is even a SMALL chance that there are some bacteria in there, then I don't want to put any untreated water in yet.
So I'll have to wait till I find time to get over to the fish store to get more conditioner before I can take out more water to bring the ammonia levels down.

Don't ask me what I was thinking when I put so much in at first
You live you learn I guess. It was fun to do my first water change, still getting the hang of the method that I saw a video about on this site.

Elvishswimmer

WOOOHOOO!!!

I'm so excited!
16 days since I have set up my tank... and I have Nitrites!

I was so worried I killed any bacteria possible with my ammonia overdose. But they are there!

I had a really tough week with school and everything, and since I have nothing immediately due, I gave myself the night off. So I've been chilling around online, reading Facebook, or another site I frequent, or here. And after reading for a while I decided to go and stare at my fish tank...... Yes. I like to stare at my empty fish tank, LOL. I think it is because I still can't get over the fact I actually have one.

Well while staring, I though meh, I haven't tested for a while, lets try again. And I noticed that my ammonia closer to 4.0 colour rather than exactly the colour of 8.0. I was a little doubtful, but thought to just test nitrites for the heck of it. And I have some!!! 0.25 PPM.
I was so excited, a great way to end a crappy week! With my little ammonia-oxidizers working away now, I am one step closer to getting fishies!

Sorry for the rambling post! I'm really excited!

Nate McFin

Congrats on the nitratesGreat looking tank so far as well. I enjoyed reading your thread and it looks like your off to a great start.

Muffymouse

Congrats on reaching the next stage of the cycle. I love the look of your tank and I'm sure it will look even better with your goldie friends when it is time =) Hang in there, things are looking great