ASebastian10

I work at a national chain pet store and have noticed a problem with certain species of aquarium residents: cory cats, plecos, african dwarf frogs, and guppies. They seem to die off fairly quickly after they arrive. The tank system is 2500 gallons. Parameters are as follows:

Temp 70
ammonia 0
chlorine 0
nitrate 20
nitrite 0
Hardness 75 PPM
alkalinity 40 ppm
pH 6.8

Everyday 1 cup of top fin water conditioner is added to remove copper and a tablespoon of sodium thiosulfate. The filtration system filters and replaces the entire 2500 gallons daily.

Other than those select few species everyone else is doing great.

Shawnie

welcome to fishlore!!!!
I can answer for a few of them..cories, and plecs are sensitive and dont travel well..the plecs are such big waste producers that unless they are shipped overnight, (which most companies dont) they stress way to easily and produce too much ammonia...cories are just sensitive fish all together and the guppies are so overbred that they arent doing well in most LFS deliveries or even setups once they arrive...but thats just my opinion from my LFS and myself shipping fish

Lucy

This might explain the mortality rate with the ADF's
Important: Chytrid Fungus in ADF's and ACF's

If you had ADF's die from this in your tanks, once you add healthy ones, they're doomed.
This fungus can be transmitted through equipment if it hasn't been sterilized completely.
I could be wrong, but I think I've read that ACF's can be carriers but never show symptoms.

This isn't just effecting amphibians in the aquarium trade but also in the wild.
I was reading an interesting National Geographic Magazine article a few months back.
Oddly enough, tadpoles weren't effected until they reached adulthood.

TedsTank

Another thought:
ADF's should be in a tank as high (deep) as that one may be...true

Tony G.

Welcome to Fishlore!!!
could it be there was a disease running in one of your tanks,. and your filter passed it to the other tanks??

Lucy

I think the OP meant total gallons. Not all one tank.

I just noticed the temp is 70F? That's too low for many tropicals.

ASebastian10

Thank you everyone for your replies!

As for the ADFs we actually just removed some for an odd fungus. We have them seperated into a 10 gallon. We do a 25% water change everyday and add a 1/2 teaspoon of pimafix. It definately seems like this fungus must be the main culprit for the frogs.

For the cories and plecos would it help if we drip acclimated them? We have been doing this for sensitive fish like cardinal tetras and angels with mild success.

Oh and yes, the entire system is 2500 gallons all connected but it is divided up into 17 gallon sections.

It doesnt appear to be a disease as far as the fish go. Every week we treat the system with Quick Cure and isolate any fish that appears to have a disease. That's definately always a possibility though.

oh yeah that's right, the temp should be 72-78 F? Thanks, will be adjusting that!

Tony G.

IMO drip acclimation shouldn´t be with long time shipping done. It should for short shipping periods, but i suppose your shipment takes a couple days for the fish to arrive. The levels of ammonia would be far too high in the bag, so i would add them right in. Drip acclimation is great. But for long periods of time exposed to ammonia they should be added emmidiately. HOWEVER... the pH is also something to consider, as your pH may be different from the one in the bag, which will shock the fish and kill them. i am curious to see what others have to say on this...

Lucy

Have you had any success with pimafix? There aren't many meds that ADF's can tolerate for normal fungal infections. If it's Chytridiomycosis, Pimafix isn't going to do a darn thing for it and any healthy frogs you add will be infected.

Shawnie

are you medicating then the fish pass? most fish , especially when stressed from shipping, cant tolerate any meds ...

Tony G.

i agree, also plecos and cory´s dont really handle medicines well...

mathas

Are you willing to share which city this is in? I'd like to look up your municipal water quality report before I spend too much type typing about a possibility that might not even be applicable.

ASebastian10

The ADFs in the 10 gallon seem to be doing fine so far we are only treating the frogs that show symptoms of the fungus. Perhaps the place we are getting them from is having an outbreak. It seems quite a few of our frogs have come down with it just days after arrival too.

We medicate the system the same day the fish arrive, a few hours after they are released into the tank. The cory cats do fine for the first couple days then like half the population will all of a sudden go down. The plecos drop a few a day, and it's just the "regular" plecos not the rubber lip, chocolate, or hifin. The guppies are sporadic. Sometimes we'll have a high loss and other times they'll do great. We are located in Fredericksburg, VA.

Shawnie

medicating fish for no apparent reason, isnt good...maybe suggest to the owner to have a totally different tank set up for new arrivals to let them relax and get use to the traveling and new tank parimeters for a week or so, before adding into the main tanks? if you continue to add meds to fish that are healthy and dont need it, (the existing fish) isnt good IMO .but i know as just an employee, and for a LFS to make money, its not always possible .. what test kit are you using at your business?

ASebastian10

I guess the, maybe misguided, hope was that medicating the system once a week would prevent an outbreak of disease, but I'll share everything I learn here with the managers and maybe something fruitful will come of it.

We use test strips. I forget the brand. One for ammonia and one for nitrates, nitrites, chlorine, hardness, alkalinity.

mathas

Your local government says that chloramine is used to treat the water: http://www.fredericksburgva.gov/uplo...008.pdf?n=4884 (page 2)

You said in the original post that you add 1 cup of Top Fin Water Conditioner. The product page on PetSmart.com suggests that a 16oz bottle will treat 480 gallons, meaning you'd need roughly 83.3oz to effectly treat 2500 gallons for ammonia or chloramine, or about 10 times more than you're currently using.

While sodium thiosulfate is effective against chlorine, it's not good to use as an anti-chloramine chemical in aquariums. It does remove chloramine, but a byproduct of the chemical reaction is ammonia. To repeat, adding sodium thiosulfate to water with chloramine present introduces ammonia. Several posts of discussion about this behavior can be found in the following link, along with conjecture about possible salinity fluctuations, which might well cause problems with cories and plecos:

Why are my fish dying?

Whether or not this is causing your problems, it's hard to say, but you might want to consider using an adequate quantity of a water conditioner that neutralizes both chlorine and chloramine.

Lucy

If you think you're dealing with the Chytrid Fungus, the only sure way is through necropsy.
It might be a good idea to call the authorities and have tests done.

Shawnie

I hope you dont feel we are all jumping over you as we just want to help and we are glad someone in a fish store is willing to learn more and at least listen to advice!! allot of fish stores get a bad rap for bad employees always out to make a buck

if you can, see if they will let you us an API liquid kit for ammonia/nitrites....mot LFS carry them and they are much more reliable than the test strips.....just to be sure the tanks are stable...but with adding meds, im not sure that is the case as most meds kill the beneficial bacteria needed to properly cycle a tank....again im so glad you are willing to learn more about your passion of fish, even if your boss wont listen to you!