paul the shark lover

ok when i get back from vacation im taking some fish back to fish store, but heres my problem: im keeping my green tiger barb and my red tailed shark named jaws. but ive read that tiger barbs should be kept in groups of 8. they all grow 3 inches so 8X3=24 inches of fish. and red tails grow 6 inches so alone my tank will be fully stocked with this combo. but heres the problem: im thinking of getting other fish to add to the tank, but the thing is my 4 oto cats I can gurante I will never get rid of them cause I need them. would this combo work: 1 tiger barb, 1 red tailed black shark, and 4 oto cats but what else should I get? and how big to demasoni barbs get? cause I might get 2 demasoni barbs since my past 2 died at a young age

oh nvm I found how big the demasoni barbs get(aka roseline sharks). they get 6 inches so forget that so what fish should I add to the tank with my current live stock. well once I get rid of the bala, the ruby shark and the clown loach. please help me

mathas

Responsible fishkeeping sometimes requires you to do what's best for your fish regardless of what you want to do. I'd love to have an oscar again, but I don't have room for another tank of suitable size, so I don't have an oscar. If you have a tiger barb that you know does best in groups, why are you considering keeping it by itself?

In a 30g tank, you could probably get away with 6 tiger barbs, the red-tailed shark, and your otos. Were that my tank, I wouldn't even keep the otos, but I certainly wouldn't add anything else.

paul the shark lover

whats wrong with the otos? they eat algae. my teacher had 2 of them as class pets in his fish tank with other fish. I dont know how many galons his fish tank was. so I might be able to get away with 6 tiger barbs, my red tailed black shark, and my 4 otos? is that what ur saying? but the thing is my fish store only had 1 green tiger barb remaining in the store. but would it do well with other tiger barbs that arent the same as the green tiger barb? like would they still be happy as a group of 5 other tiger barbs and 1 green tiger barb? but also tiger barbs at the fish store arent cheap so im gonna have to think about this one. thanks mathas

Tony G.

Hello Paul. Tiger barbs do well in groups. I second what mathas said about the 6 tiger barbs, 4 ottos and the shark. No more. I would NOT get the demasoni, just because:
1) He will become VERY agressive since he would be on his own and would bully around your fish.
2) The remaining stock you wish to keep will fully stock your tank. In simpler words, you will not have more room. Even if it looks empty, the Barbs will grow to a good 3 inches if you plan on keeping the 6, and the Shark will grow to a good 6-7 inches, so just imagine how crowded your tank will look...
PS. Please, please please use the edit button. Its on the lower right hand corner to add information. It will make the thread less confusing, and will not take so much space, which basically takes up alot of room. Its better to have a post with added information, for example:

EDIT 1: My readings are bla bla and bla as of today ( septemebr 4th bla bla bla)
EDIT 2: My readings are Bla Bla bla as of 4 pm the same day...

that way it will save up room and less confusion.

jdhef

The Green Tiger Barb is just a color variation of a standard Tiger Barb, and as far as I know color doesn't make any difference to schooling fish, so you should be fine mixing in standard Tigers with your Green guy.

Aldric

this is going to be like a mirror thread of the last one that got locked.....
in that one you would never ever get rid of ur sharkes becouse you loved them so much ( but did or planning to) and now its the turn of the oto cats.....
you STILL have the same size tank so why not read the very long locked thread? it has all your questions answered there about what fish to keep and sizes ect.

Lucy

Here are the links to the previous threads so members won't have to repeat themselves.
30 gallon fish tank
thanks for the help its working

paul the shark lover

well ok so witch one is it get rid of the oto cats all together or keep them and get 5 more tiger barbs? because tony said that it should be fine with the red tail shark and the 6 tiger barbs plus oto cats. witch will make the tank fully stocked? so who ever anwsers this question to my next post will be the final answer. then the mods can lock up this topic and then ill leave fish lores forums so i dont spam u guys anymore. well nice knowing all of u. and thanks to who ever anwsers this question after this post. well anyways im only gonna be on the fish profiles after I leave when this gets locked up. sorry for spamming and/or agrivating/annoying any of u. bye

sirdarksol

I'm curious as to why you're shutting down simply because people are trying to help you and your fish. You certainly have not spammed us (spam is unasked-for advertisements). There has definitely been frustration flowing both ways in the conversation, but that happens periodically. It's the mark of a good mind to be able to accept the frustration and work around it.

I apologize if our opinions seemed harsh. They were, however, driven by a concern both for you and your fish. An aquarium is a much more pleasant thing when the fish survive for years, rather than weeks.

There is a lot of experience here. I would very strongly suggest that you stick around and avail yourself of it, and consider it carefully when it is given, even if it doesn't jive with what you want.

As for the question you ask, there is no right answer. There are opinions on whether or not your tank should have otos. Going with the next answer is not a healthy way to stock your tank (what if the next answer is "you should replace your otos with saltwater crabs."?) nor is it a very good way to make decisions. It's just placing control into the hands of those around you, while you will still have full responsibility for your actions. Personally, I much prefer feeling good about my own successes and bad about my failures than being happy or fretting about why I listened to someone else' good or bad advice.

You've mentioned that you want to be a marine biologist. As you progress through high school and into college, you can turn your aquaria into study/research tools. However, this will only work if you learn to keep healthy aquaria and make sound decisions about your livestock's care. There's nothing wrong with asking for help, of course, but if you don't know the "why" of a particular decision, than you really haven't learned anything. Caring for increasingly difficult fish over the next four years before college (not to mention your time in college) presents the opportunity to learn a ton about fish, inverts, the nitrogen cycle, algae, and other aquatic plants. If you hang around, and if you choose to learn from us, you will likely be the one offering advice to new members a year or two from now, and you will likely be caring for the very same fish as you put in your tank over the next couple of months.

Aldric

paul its not a case of you spamming and there is no need to leave the forum
its just a case of asking you to read the threads you have already started and reading the answers you have already been given. Im sorry if u feel you have to leave, we just want to help you but you also need to learn to listen to us

sirdarksol

Excellently said, except for the last ten words.
Nobody here needs to listen to anybody else. What every member, young or old, newb or old hat, should do is consider every piece of advice offered, weigh it against what they already know, against independent research, and against other advice offered, and make a determination of whether or not to implement that piece of advice. This should be done with as neutral of a mind as possible (for example: when considering what is healthiest for the fish, try to banish thoughts of what you want from your head).

paul the shark lover

It just looked like I was getting on everyones nerves because I could tell by some of the things people were typing. and also ive been trying to follow all ur advice(especially the moderators, and the more experienced people here) but its to much at once for me. also its just everyone keeps saying different things. im getting really really confused. soon I might just get rid of my tank and all my fish together possibly. I dont know if I should or not. so im just seriously confused now. so for the time being should I keep the otos for algae? yes or no? and will it matter if I do because with the adult size of the red tail shark, the 6 tiger barbs, and the 4 otos added up it equals 32. so 32 inches of fish in a 30 galon tank. does it matter if its 1 or 2 inches over the tank size? and I think I might stay because sirdarksol is right about both his former posts. ok bye for now

Lucy

Excellent posts by SDS.
It's very frustrating just starting out. Especially so when it's on the wrong foot and you've become attached to your fish.
So much info is thrown at you at once to try and sort things out, it's hard to absorb.
So sit down and take a deep breath. It won't be long before you're enjoying your tank.
I kinda like the suggestions of the Barbs and RTS. I don't know much about them though. Sounds pretty cool.
As far as keeping the otos, I really can't say for sure. They're very docile and sensitive fish where the Barbs and RTS are more agressive.
Once you return the fish you're planning on taking back try the new stocking and see if it works.
I'm curious why you need your otos, other than they're really cute fish. lol

sirdarksol

Yep, you likely were getting on some people's nerves, just like they were likely getting on yours. Like I said, that's bound to happen in any community. There are ways of getting around it.
For example, I found myself getting frustrated with you. However, I stopped, put myself in your shoes, and realized that you were likely just as frustrated. I then looked for the reasons why we were frustrated, and started working on ways to get around them.

I know that it's a lot of info, and that some of it seems conflicting, and that some of it is conflicting, but that's just the nature of keeping any pet. Ever looked into keeping Guinea pigs? It seems like it should be easy, right? Just get a cage, get some bedding, a water bottle, a food dish, and some food, and it'll be fine, right? There's way more to it than that, though. Same with nearly every pet, including fish.

This is actually the reason that I said, back in your second thread, that you should return all of your fish, work out a good stock list, and then start stocking your tank. It's much easier for you to deal with writing and re-writing the stock list when it's theoretical, and it's much easier for us to deal with when we're not concerned about the fish that are currently in the tank dying. It would give you time to ask questions, learn about the fish, and make decisions.

Now, to answer your question as best as I can. I'll phrase it as a simple answer, but I'm going to give you the rest of the information as well. In other words, I'll give you a fish, but I'm also going to teach you how to fish.

If you are going to keep the shark, then no, you shouldn't keep the otos.

Because the shark gets so big (not just in length, but in body mass), it doesn't work with the "inch per gallon" guideline. Once you start including larger fish, the guideline requires very severe adjustments (for example, goldfish, which rarely grow more than four inches of body length, require 20g for the first and 10g for each individual). Because the otos are susceptible to poor water quality, they likely wouldn't survive such a tank.
The best method of keeping algae under control is to keep the nitrogen under control. Algae needs light, nitrogen, and phosphorous to grow. Take away any one of these, and it won't grow very fast. A periodic scrub-down with an algae brush will deal with what does grow.
Personally, I would keep the barbs and the otos and take the shark back. After a few months, I would start watching Craigslist and Freecycle for a larger tank in which to keep the shark and some other fish.

mathas

As I said in my earlier post, I would not keep them if it were my tank. While I do like otos, I personally wouldn't keep them in a non-planted tank, which I assume is what we're talking about here.

I'm also not a fan of having a certain type of fish just because they're functional. If you like otos because you like otos, that's one thing; but all you've said so far is that "they eat algae," and that's a pretty lukewarm description. As sirdarksol pointed out, there are a lot of ways to deal with algae, including some as simple as just not leaving the lights on 12 hours per day.

paul the shark lover

ok I really really wanna keep jaws cause he was a gift to me. ive had a smaller tank before that was 5 galons. I got jaws from my friend when he was still a growing fry so jaws is the only fish that I can not find my self to part with. the reason my friend gave me jaws was because he bought him as a baby(u know how when their like really small and stuff), he got it from a breeder. then he didnt want it so he gave it to me. and he was my very first fish thats the whole reason I started keeping fish. ive watched jaws grow. ive had him for 2-3 months. so im keeping jaws. Ill get rid of the otos if I must and I do have an algae brush so that works to. so my tank will be fine now with 8 tiger barbs, and 1 red tail shark right? there all agressive fish and the tiger barb is better off with 8 and the red tail by him self. that will fully stock my tank. so i should get rid of the otos. btw lucy ur right the otos are really cute fish, but there hard to keep alive like angel fish. and sirdarksol my dad said that in a few years he will buy me a tank bigger than 60 galons so i got that to look forward to. so anyways i gtg for now pce

sirdarksol

I'd go with five tiger barbs (the minimum they need for a proper school) and the shark.
With that setup, you'll have a workable tank. You'll need to keep a close eye on your nitrates, and you'll probably need to do some pretty big water changes (use the water from the tanks to water your family's gardens, if you've got any. It will save on water bills and will fertilize the plants), but as long as you keep up on your tank maintenance, it should work.

paul the shark lover

wow sirdarksol if I had a garden I wouldve but unfortunatly I dont but thats genuis I wouldve never thought of that! and why 5? 8 will be better and it will stop fin nipping from what ive heard. and sirdarksol, and lucy and others have been a big help for me. but lucy and sirdarksol from day 1 for me here have been a big big big help to me everyone clap for sirdarksol and lucy
thank you, both of you also thank you sirdarksol for ur adivce. how often should I test the water levels? and im always on top of nitrite, nitrate,ammonia,clhorine and chlormine or w/e its called. since those are most harmful to fish. and also isnt it something to be amazed about to watch a fish like a red tail grow from just a fry like mine?

sirdarksol

I think you're trying to max out the "inches per gallon" guideline here. As I said, the shark doesn't fit in that guideline.
Really, I think that the shark and five barbs would be over-stocked, meaning they will produce too much waste for the tank, but five is the minimum number to keep the barbs from getting nippy.
Since you're intent on keeping the shark in that tank, I would very strongly suggest keeping the minimum number of barbs with it.

paul the shark lover

oh I forgot about the waste factor. thanks sirdarksol. ok I will get 5 thanks. so my tank will basically be a 30 galon planted tiger barb and red tail shark tank basically?

Lucy

I think it sounds good.

paul the shark lover

ive come along way

Lucy

Yep, you sure have.
It makes me so happy that you're thinking through your stocking choices.
Now remember when you go to the fish store, don't let your head be turned by the assortment of fish and products.
It's easy to lose your head there.

paul the shark lover

LOL thats totally true. im going their with a list i will smack my self if I buy anything but 4 tiger barbs(cause if u add mine its 5)

Lucy

Just checking......the other fish are going back before you get the barbs, right?

paul the shark lover

yes. im taking back: 1 bala shark, 1 ruby shark, 1 clown loach, 4 oto catfish, 7-8 flame tetras(diff smaller tank), and my guppys(if my uncle doesnt take them). then im waiting a day then going to the fish store to get the barbs.

Tony G.

you could tye a ribbon around your finger so when you point at a fish you like you see the ribbon and say" oh no! thats not what im here for!"

its worked for me anyway lol

paul the shark lover

hmm something just crossed my mind: what if I possibly take back the tiger barb and get different fish? or would that be stupid? i doubt I will though.

paul the shark lover

good night for now in toronto(where I live) its 1:10 am pce

Lucy

You're thinking of taking back all your fish and thinking of a different stock?

Goodnight.