mmaris

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could perhaps explain to me why my fish died.

I purchased a new beginners 5 gal tank set up a week ago. It came with a plastic aquarium, undergravel filter, and a couple plants. I rinsed all these with water, and then put water in, let it settle over night. The next day I added some rinsed gravel, chlorine remover, some ammonia treatment, a pH adjuster to 7.0, and waited two more days. In this time I left the undergravel filter running with the included air pump and air stone, and adjusted my 75W heater to 25 C. I also put in a second filter, which is an Elite Stingray 10. So after about 5 days I was ready to add some fish, or so I thought. I added one dwarf guorami and two bala sharks (which I know will get bigger, and plan to transfer to a larger tank). Each fish was about 1 inch to 1.5 inches. On the second day of having these fish in the tank I came home to a shock, they were all dead.

Confused, I tested my water to see what was up. All my readings are normal, as per the test kit I have, and this was verified by the local pet store's tests.

So I don't know what could be the culprit.....

Any ideas?

Shawnie

welcome to fishlore!!!

im sorry for the loss of your fish....heres a link that will help you know why they passed

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
its allot of reading but it must be done for any type of fish keeping and if you read down, you can see a few methods of cycling without fish that will work....the ammonia treatment you used, do you know the name of it? and whats the name of your test kit?

also, I wouldnt trust the LFS for anything anymore as them selling you 2 bala's for a 5g tank lets me know they are out for the money not the care of the fish..even as small fish, they need a MUCH larger tank ....good luck and there are plenty of members who are willing to help even further if need be

coffeebean

ammonia is likely the culprit. it takes much longer for a tank to fully cycle.
i am sorry for your loss please read the articles here about the nitrogen cycle, they are very informative.

ABCDemily

Welcome to fishlore!

SOrry about your losses, but I wouldn't trsut you LFS, Balas grow 14" big -WOAH! They need a minimum of 150 gallons.

Ready up on the nitrogen cycle, and you'll be there in no time. The best fish for that tank is a betta splendens, you'll love them

Good luck, and enjoy your stay at fishlore!

Lucy

Welcome to Fish Lore
Good advice from the posters above.
In a 5g tank consider either one of the following options:
a betta or two African dwarf frogs or a dwarf puffer.

mmaris

If it wasn't ammonia is there anything else it could be? I checked my ammonia levels with the test kit both before and after my fish died, but both times it read as normal. The kit I was using was a Jungle brand Quick Dip Complete.

Lucy

My guess would be aggressive fish in too small a tank or one of them could have been sick and they all succumbed to whatever illness might have been brought in.
The strips can be inaccurate, it might be a good idea to look into a good liquid test kit like the API maser kit.

mmaris

i was reading that using a filter too large for the tank can stress fish out? Would there be any correlation between the deaths and using a 10 gallon submersible filter in a 5 g tank?

Lucy

Over filtration can sometimes be a problem if the fish can't handle the current, especially in a small tank. So, yes, sometimes it can increase their stress level.
Unfortunatly, there were several stress factors going on with your tank.
An uncycled tank, possibly too strong of a current, agressive fish in too small of a tank, incompatable tank mates for that size tank.

I'm sorry, I don't mean that to sound harsh. Many of us started out on the wrong foot when we trusted a fish store to give us the correct information and not sell us the wrong kind of fish for our tank.

aquarium dunce

x2 Lucy!! I lost 12 fish listening the the advice of my local fish store before I found the fishlore website! The people on this site are very very knowlodgable, friendly and willing to answer questions. Good luck with your tank!!

Craig-D

I respectfully disagree with the others above that ammonia was the killer here. The three 1" fish he had are not going to generate lethal amounts of ammonia in only 48 hours. There wouldn't even be enough to register on a test kit that soon - hence why he had no readings. Something else is more likely the cause. I bet the water fom the LFS and his water were very different and he didn't acclimate them enough. Why are you using a pH adjuster? A huge and quick pH variation would be enough to kill them. Or you used soap when cleaning something in that tank - an quick fish killer. Another possibility is having a 75 watt heater in a 5 gallon tank - about three times the wattage needed. You might have cooked them to death.

Shawnie

and I will respectfully disagree with you ...it is very possible to have ammonia in a tank that fast...especially with the type of fish he got....its alo possible it was the chemicals used as well as a ph shock....but do not rule out ammonia ever ...especially without a reliable test kit.....ever had fish shipped overnight? theres ammonia in that bag and im talking from some reputable breeders.....and im talking a good size bag with a 2 inch fish...I agree there probably is a false reading as quick dips arent reliable and would indicate a negative reading anyway and most LFS use the dip sticks also.......most of the dips dont even have an ammonia reading on them unless you buy them specifically for ammonia...gettin a good quality test kit to be sure the tank is cycled properly, as well as some water conditioner will get the tank running properly then there are many members who will help you with stocking questions

jwokmuba2

sorry to here about your troubles. im with shawnie here, when you put such fish in such a small tank, not including that tank cant process ammonia because it hasnt had the time to cycle, the ammonia can build very rapidly. you (again like the post above) dont trust your local fish store (LFS). unless they are very aware of the nitrogen cycle and what fish you can put in a givin size tank,( like one of my lfs is). also it takes alot longer to cycle a tank, anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks sometimes even longer. more good advice from above, read up on your nitrogen cycle. api master test kit is a must. and good luck, we are all here to help out as much as we can.

mmaris

ok great! Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I really appreciate it. I used the pH 7.0 kit as a suggestion from the LFS, apparently they use that with their tanks, and I thought it would help the fish to acclimate. One thing to note, when I went back to the LFS they had 4 of 8 guoramis laying on the bottom, barely breathing. They said this was because they are a weak fish......any thoughts? I'm not a guorami expert by any means.

I'll be sure to get one of those liquid test kits so I can be more accurate, but just a question about my heater. I know its 75W, but my question is does the wattage matter at all, or simply the temp? I have a thermometer constantly in the tank, and the temp is about 77-78 F.

Also, when I said I washed the gravel and tank, I meant just rinsed with tap water a few times before filling and adding chlorine treatment. Never seen soap.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

jwokmuba2

im not sure that it matters how powerful your heater is, as long as it can regulate your water temp good, you should be fine. what is the name of your LFS, just wondering, they dont know what they are talking about when they talk about fish. most gouramis are pretty easy to take care of (also hardy) as long as your tank has cycled and all your water parameters are good. just to forewarn you, most of the time only one gourami per tank unless you have a big enough tank for multiple.

here is a link to fishlores fish list, here you find find alot of the fish sold in most stores, this lists compatible tank mates, size of tank required, difficulty and many other facts of each species. it might help you out on finding the right fish or invertabra for your tank....
http://www.fishlore.com/freshwaterfish.htm

Lucy

Oh dear, definatly not a good sign, nor a good answer. Healthy fish should not be lying on the bottom of a tank and for them to make the excuse that's they're weak, geez.

Next time just rinse the filter media in used tank water. The chlorine from untreated tap water can kill the beneficial bacteria your tank needs to maintain it's self.
I'd suggest you not use the under gravel filter. Fish waste and left over food can get trapped under the plate and get nasty before you know it.
Then you'd have to tear your tank apart to clean it.
The other filter (depending on the fish you choose) will be fine.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to stock with!