smileyfish

Hello, I have a LOT of questions. I havnt even bought a tank yet, but i am going to. I am most likely going with a 20 gallon long tank (30 x 12 x 12). I have never had a serious fish tank before and have very little knowledge of really anything. I have, of course, researched several topics such as the beginners page of this and filteration. I basically just want to know on a more personal bases what i should do from this point.
What and where should I buy first (i live near a petco and petsmart)?
Is there a specific filter or heater i should buy or know about?
What are good and COOL starter fish and how many should i get?
How long should i keep these for before i get new fish and what kind?
What kind of gravel, rocks, plants or other decorations whould i get?
How do I set it all up?
When and how do i clean the tank?
Should i get lighting?
Anything else i should know...?

Beth1965

Hi!! Welcome to fishlore. You'll learn a lot here. I see that you did some reading already. Firstly, you should explore this:
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
That will really help you start out with a great healthy tank.
By the way, I am jealous of you getting the 20 gal i want one so badly.

Beth

serissime

Do you know about "cycling"? There are some good articles here on that. Fishless is a good way to go, but I think that the product Tetra Safe Start is a good way too. That way requires fish but does not harm them. It's really easy to hurt your fish if you cycle the "traditional" way with fish in the tank.

If you see healthy fish at petco and petsmart, then go ahead and buy fish from them, but do your research before buying anything there. Although there are exceptions, employees at fish stores are usually not reliable at all. I would seek out smaller stores around you. I did a google search and found a bunch in my area, surprisingly. Small, non-chain stores are often better maintained and have more interesting fish and a wider selection of specialty equpiment.

For a 20L, I would buy something like an AquaClear filter. More filtration is better than less filtration, but for a short(er) tank like a 20L, I think I would probably buy the AC filter rated for 20g. If you want to have a lot of fish, you could add a sponge filter like the Hydro. I personally don't like the Lee sponge filter.

I personally like pool filter sand for my tanks, but the decorations is going to depend on what kind of tank you want. I like driftwood and nice realistic plants, with maybe a discreet decoration or two. But there's nothing wrong with glow in the dark rocks if you want. If you are going to find your decorations outside, be careful. Don't add rocks if you don't know if they will change your water chemistry (there are easy ways to test this) and make sure you boil wood before adding it to your tank.

You should buy a "gravel vacuum" which is a siphon and use this to remove about 25% of the water weekly. Then you can use a bucket to fill the water back up (make sure the temperature matches). You need to buy a dechlorinator like Prime to make the water safe for the fish. Add this before adding the water to the tank. There are products other than Prime, but I think that's the best for your money. Other than dechlorinator, you really don't need any of the other additives available.

As for a heater, that is one thing you don't mess around with. It's tempting to buy a cheap one, but I would try to go with a reliable brand like Marineland. The last thing you want to come home to is a tank full of fried fish.

Your tank should have a light fixture for your viewing pleasure, but it will probably come with the hood (the top) of your tank. The type of light bulb itself doesn't really matter unless you want to keep real plants.

What kind of fish do you want? That will help us help you a lot

EDIT: I got ninja'd on cycling by Beth And welcome to fishlore! I forgot

smileyfish

thank you, i'm looking right now. I was going to get a 10 gallon but at my local petshop there is a HUGE sale and i can get it for about $50! anything else?

Beth1965

Yes, there IS something else; please get me one of the 20 gallons too!!!!
PLEASE!
THere is plenty more to tell but there will be more people on to say hello and give more information.
Have fun with it all

smileyfish

I dont know a lot of fish but i want colorful fish. I saw some called electro fish or sunburst fish or something, they are really cool and small and glow. Also a small angelfish would be cool if its an okay starter fish. I also would want a big size fish like a bala shark, i think theyre called. Also i have a betta fish, its a male crowntail, can i put this in the tank?

smileyfish

with freshwater fish do you still need to add chemicals? I was under the impression you dont...

serissime

If it's possible to get a bigger tank, always get the bigger tank. You will find yourself wanting to upgrade quickly. Also, don't be afraid to use craigslist for this stuff. Definitely make sure it's a good product (ask here if you need to) and don't settle for faulty equipment, but it can save you money. As a beginner, you may want to go with new stuff because you might not know any better how to judge the used stuff, but I just thought I'd put that out there.

As for cool fish, do you want lots of babies? I personally think it's a pain, but lots of people love it. If so, you could get livebearers like guppies or platies. You will very quickly have a lot of fish (too many ) If you want schools of small fish, you can get something like cardinal tetras. An adorable bottom-dwelling fish is a cory cat. They need a school of at least 4, preferably 6 or more, but 20g limits you there. They are just so fun and amusing though. You could look into the smaller gouramis, such as the dwarf gourami. DON'T get sucked into buying a pleco at the pet store. The ones commonly available there are known as common plecos and they get VERY large, no matter what employees tell you. You could look into khuli loaches (who need a school). Hmmm hopefully some other people will chime in with more fish. Alex here on the forum (agabr003) has a cool thread here with lots of stocking ideas for different size tanks. There is also another user with a good one, but I can't recall who.

serissime

You probably saw glofish, which are brightly colored Danios. Danios would be a good fish for you. They like to be in a school. I think bala sharks will get too large for your tank, I might be wrong, but hit up a species profile somewhere and check it out. Angelfish will get too big for a 20L. They need something tall like a 30, I think.

You don't need any chemicals for freshwater except for your dechlorinator. It will remove the deadly chlorine and chloramine in the tap water.

smileyfish

No Babies Please

serissime

If you still like the livebearing fish though, like platies, swordtails, or mollies, you could just get one gender. Platies and mollies will probably be hard to sex at the store, so I would maybe just go with guppies or swordtails. I would get males because even if you only have females, the females can hold sperm for a long time before giving birth. And that would be a pain. Male guppies have the long tails and male swordtails have the sword, while females do not.

Take a look at Alex's thread and you can also browse around looking at other fish because her list is far from final, just run it by us before making a decision (if you don't mind )

smileyfish

anything on the betta fish?

serissime

Oh, sorry. That varies fish to fish. He may or may not be okay with living in a community setting. Some are great, some are terrors. Tankmates matter. He can't be kept with flashy fish because he could attack them (like guppies, long tails like his). Some fish might nip HIS tail (maybe danios or neon tetras). Some bettas just have tempers and will be aggressive to anyone. Feel free to try it if you pick compatible fish, but make sure you still have a backup plan for him. He might change his mind in the future, too.

smileyfish

thank you all very much. I am looking at tanks now. So i shouldnt get an angelfish? (the really small ones) how many fish (medium-small sized) can i have in my tank. how many should i get at first also?

serissime

You might see small angelfish, but they are all the same species, and they will all get too big.

If you wanted, say, a school of swimming fish and a school of bottom fish, I would say you could get around 10 cardinal tetras and 6 cory cats, for example. I personally don't use the 1"/gallon rule because that's not very realistic, but I know a lot of users here do. If you wanted, you could get a dwarf gourami too. The footprint of this tank is certainly big enough for everyone.

Before I tell you who to get first, have you decided how to cycle your tank yet? Also, speak up on what fish you are interested in

MizRamzi

it's manditory to take pictures a.s.a.p. and post em here!!!

agabr123

hi and welcome to fishlore!

the thread that mary (serissime) is referring to is this one, but again these are just suggestions to give you an idea of the type of fish that you can keep and the size fish that will probably work in your tank
Work In Progress: Freshwater Community Stocking List

smileyfish

well i kinda know what cycling is but i didnt know there was different ways, i guess whatever one is the best quality and to a degree money isnt any object. also as for the fish i would want a school(3-5) of those glofish and maybe those loaches other than that im open to new ideas because i really dont know about too many fish but i do want them colorful. so i shouldnt follow the 1" per gallon rule but then what rule should i follow, i mean theres obviously a limit but what is that? also how do you clean tye tank and perform all the neccessary maintenance?

agabr123

i'd say that the best way to cycle is without fish in the tank you can do this many different ways, you just need a source of ammonia. generally people use either a pinch of flake food added to the tank daily, a piece of raw shrimp added in a mesh bag, or drops of pure ammonia daily (2-4ppm). either way, the cycle doesn't change. you'll see ammonia and nitrite spike, and then nitrates will come, and then ammonia and nitrite will drop to zero and you'll get a nitrate reading and then you're done!

i would follow the 1 inch per gallon rule as more of a guideline than anything else, not a rule to die by

for cleaning the tank, you'll want to get a gravel vacuum (also called a water siphon) and an algae scrubber (if necessary). most people do water changes anywhere from 25-50% weekly, depending on how high their nitrates are.

here's an article on maintenance that should help
http://www.fishlore.com/Maintenance.htm

serissime

Alex covered the bases on cycling there. The best way to test your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) is to use the API liquid test kit.

For cleaning the tank, make sure you get a bucket to use with the gravel vac too. I find it easiest to have 3 buckets. (one for draining, one for filling, and one for any kind of wet object storage.)

For fish, so you want about 5 danios, 5 khuli loaches.... Like I said, you could get a dwarf gourami or a honey gourami. Hmm I'm having trouble thinking of other fish. You could do some research on Dario Dario, peacock gudgeons, sparkling gouramis, pair of german blue rams... maybe hatchets.. there are a lot of small fish out there. If you want a centerpiece fish to round out your stock, I'd stick to a fish that stays under 3" or so for the most part

smileyfish

alright well ive learned a lot so far. so i go to a local pet store and buy some sort of API liquid test kit? Is there a specific cycling that is best (or quickest as long as no quality is lost)? Can you buy the loaches easily? So i'd buy those 10 fish total (danios + loaches) then one of those in your next list? Can all of these easily get along together? Once i've cycled my tank then i can add in all those fish, because i thought you should only add one or two at a time but thats probably for cycling...? And last question so far is how often do i clean. I was thinking just every sunday i'd set aside some time (is 1 hour enough or should it be more) and take out half the water with a water siphon, then add in the half from a bucket thats been set to a proper temperature (should i cycle that somehow?) then scrub the sides with what?, and that would be my weekly thing. BUT obviously there is more so every first sunday of the month i would take all the fish out (should i put them in seperate fish bowls or something, I have one of those petco plastic rectangular creature box things its probably about one foot x 6 inches x 6 inches maybe not) then take all the rocks and things like that out, then shut off the equipment such as heater and filter?, then take out ALL the water and gravel/sand.
Ok now i have my breath back, once i've thoroughly cleaned all the gravel, decorations, etc. i'd put it back in as i want it. Then i'd throw in buckets of water until its at the right level along with turning back on the equipment. Then i'd wait for the water to cycle (how long does that take?)...? Once EVERYTHING is done i'd add my danios, khuli loaches, and specialty fish. Then i'm done.....

Lucy

Personally, I'd leave the betta out of the community.
Just never know their temperament.
They might get along for a little while. Then poof, something happens, some one could get hurt or killed.
Another thing to consider are bettas are little piggies and would eat themselves to the point of illness.

smileyfish

haha ya no im going to keep my fish safe from my little devil betta. He didnt react so well to his reflection, almost broke the mirror and himself.

Lucy

lol, He sounds like a real character. I put a snail in with my female....she went right after it. Poor snail.
I had to remove him. No playmates for my betta either.

smileyfish

if anyone wants to answer just one of my questions from before that would be nice, you dont need to answer every single one. So feel open to answer! but still thank you all

also is there a quality difference between a 20 gallon kit with the filter and heater etc. and a 20 gallon tank which you buy a filter and heater etc. seperate then add. If so what are the best brands and combinations

also, hahah, how much food and when do you feed the fish? and color doesnt change the schooling wants of a fish right. if i get say 2 green, 2 yellow, and 1 orange danios then they will still school together right?

agabr123

yep, you want the API freshwater master kit

not really, you can try tetra safe start though, it's worked for some members, but to do that you need to buy your whole stock and put in all of the TSS, follow the directions very very explicitly. and feel free to ask questions lots of members here have used it.

i'm sorry but i forgot what kind you wanted, if it was the dwarf chain loaches for those you may need to order online. if it's kuhli loaches you can probably find them in store

yeah but i'd consider buying just the danios OR loaches first, then buying the next group a week or so later so the bacteria has time to catch up

i dont think you should have any problems with compatibility

you don't need to add one or two at a time, but in small groups. so if you're getting six danios add them, then 1-2 weeks later add the loaches, etc.

one hour should be enough time for just one tank. you don't need to cycle the water in the buckets, just add a good water conditioner like prime, stress coat +, amquel + etc. you definitely don't want to take out all the water and gravel/sand, that will crash your cycle. a lot of the beneficial bacteria is on the substrate and decorations, and cleaning them will remove a lot of it. so just your weekly maintenance is great for the tank

yes, the cycle can take anywhere from 4-6 weeks, sometimes longer.

agabr123

whoops forgot this one. i feed twice a day, and for the community only feed as much as they can eat in 1-2 minutes. all of those danios should school together just fine

smileyfish

thank you, now for the next question. Should i get a quarantine tank, i barely know what they are besides that they are for sick fish or something. Is there a specific order to add them like the danios first or the (khuli) loaches first?
And i was looking online and saw that you can buy an eel.... Of course that wouldnt be until later but is that a realistic option for my size (20 gallon) tank? Are those plants that are grown in the water at a pet store an okay choice for decoration?
What is a plankton boom and is that something i should be worried about?
So i would go out and buy a 20 gallon tank (most likely) and it would fit dimension wise on a bar area that has minimal sunlight. But ive looked around and it seems pretty solid that 10 lbs. per gallon is the weight. So 200 lbs! I'm not sure how to see if that will work on my bar area because obviously i dont want to finally add in the water and suddenly it breaks the entire bar, thats a TON of $$ for repairing and i have to go out and buy a whole new set up!

smileyfish

ok so a new decision has been made. I am going to get a possible 20 gallon but its going to be one that goes up against a wall on a shelf/stand that comes with it. It will be flat against the wall then kinda bubble out.

agabr123

i'd definitely look into getting a quarantine tank. it doesn't have to be anything fancy at all, just make sure that you have a clean container (doesn't even need to be a tank, you can use a rubbermaid tub), a filter, and a heater. i wouldn't keep it set up all the time, just keep a bunch of extra filter media somewhere in your tank that you can put into the QT filter if you need it at any time.

it doesn't matter which order you add your fish in really, but i'd add the danios first because they are very hardy and it will give your tank time to get more established before you add the kuhli loaches.

[quote]And i was looking online and saw that you can buy an eel.... Of course that wouldnt be until later but is that a realistic option for my size (20 gallon) tank?

it really depends which kind of plants they are, and they're probably mislabeled. if you want live plants, you'll need to figure out your WPG (watts per gallon) of lighting and what kind of plants that you'd like to keep. im no plant expert, so i'll let someone else advise you on that

i'm not sure, are you thinking of an algae bloom?

yeah, i'd say that it will weigh around 200 lbs. how is your bar built? if it's supported by solid 2x4s then you shouldnt have a problem as long as the weight is equally distributed.