lousieg55

seems like im in a simular boat as you, Found this web site last night searching around.

I had my tank set up for about a week and a couple days. Added Cycle (LFC told me to use that) well that did not work so yesterday my ammonia was very very high. So i called all over on a wild goose hunt and finaly found a store about 30 mins from that had the TSS so i drove down there and picked up a 250ml bottle and a 100ml bottle. I dumbed the hole 250ml in last night.

When do you guys think i should do my first water change. The guy at the fish store that i bought it at told me not do a water change befor i added this product in.

Also i just test my water bot nites are low or zero, But the Ammonia is defenlty high, I can read the stupid test strip good enough, So im going to go trade it in and get a liquid tester on the way home from school today figure out whats really going on. But i added the product last night and still pretty high levels i tihnk. Also I have had 7 guppys in my tank for about 3 days now all still alive 30 gallon tank

Sorry not trying to Hijack the thread

Lucy

Hi Truckguy, I went ahead and moved your question to a thread of it's own.
It'll be less confusing for those helping you and the other member.
I've never used TSS, but others have and I'm sure they'll be able to help you.
Good luck with your tank

Shawnie

welcome to fishlore !!!

at this point, give it the 7 days and see where your readings are after that.....with the product "cycle" in the tank, im not sure TSS can do its job...it may not work so be prepared for that.....if after 7 days you are not completely cycled, do a big water change, add some prime conditioner, wait 24 hours then add the other bottle of TSS and give it 7 days ....the fact that cycle was in the tank when you added the TSS, may contribute negatively to the TSS's ability to work.....goodluck!

BulldogWrestler

What Shawnie said, plus you REALLY need to get a different test kit - with the strips you'll just never know.

That said, wait 7-10 days to test with TSS and have a backup bottle in case something goes wrong and it doesn't work.

lousieg55

Okay, yea i did not know the "cycle" would mess it up, I wish i would have know that. I just picked up a new test kit and my ammonia as of now about 18 hours from the time i put tss in its at about 3.0ppm or so. Its in between the 2.0 mark and 4.0 mark.

I will test again tonight.

So this cylce is going to waste that hole big boddle of tss

I was debating on doing a water change, i really should have but the guy i bought the safestart from told me to just add it sence i already kinda started my cycle and that it would just take longer.

I guess i will know if its working if my ammonia keeps going down and the nitrites start going up right

So basicly i sit tho and wait until atleast this weekend figure out whats going on and go from there?

lousieg55

Also just email tetra asking there input about the "cycle" product being in my tank.

agabr123

are the seven guppies you said you had the only fish in the tank? 3.0 is very high, if you don't see that starting to come down in the next few days i'd go ahead and do a very large water change and start over with the TSS like others have said. i'd rinse your filter media very thoroughly in dechlorinated water as well in case the cycle is still on there.

lousieg55

Yes only fish in the tank, I had 35 gold fish in there for a day(dont ask) then found out that was very very very bad so i took them out, let my tank sit for a day then added the guppies.

The lady on the phone today(Marinland labs) did not seem to think the cycle was going to give me a problem, or did not say i would have a problem with it in there. She said it was a booster but not this live bacteria stuff but never said anything about it affecting the TSS, I will call on my way back to work see if i can get some one and ask this pacific question. According to here i should see big results in 24 hours and in 2-3 days should be a hole lot better.

We will see tho, Yes i know the 3.0 is very high but i belive it was alot higher then that befor,How ever i am not positive.

Yes i agree if dont see a big change any time soon i think a big water change and add TSS again ( only small bottle tho) and stuff would help.

THis waiting game is not fun

lousieg55

Update , just got of the phone with Tetra-care, she told me dont wurry about the cycle it wont affect the way tetra TSS works in any way. She also said that in about 24-48 hours after i put it in there my Ammonia and Nitrites levels should be about 1.0-1.5 and then in a week to 2 weeks it will drop to 0 and i should only have nitrates, which would mean my tank is cycled

So i guess by tomorrow night if my tank levels are not going down then i guess its a bust and the stuff does not work or i did sometihng wrong.

She also told me if the levels are going down do not do a water change for at least 2 weeks. But every person i talked to over there keep telling me not to wurry this product will work and i will not have a problem.

So ill keep you guys updated, and my new water test kit for Nits and pH will be here next week or so

Any other suggestions or am i on the right track

Shaner014

Yea as you know 35 fish is way too many. Anyways, simply removing them and not doing a massive water change after would do nothing to remove the ammonia they left in the tank (this is where the 3.0ppm came from I would suppose). Testing can become addicting, as I know all too well. It's in your best interest to just leave it alone until the 7th or 8th day mark. Then check levels. The "cycle" chemical will compete for the same food source as the TSS, however it is a different kind of bacteria and usually dies off after 7-10 days. That being said, it could have all been dead to begin with, causing no effect to your tank at all.

lousieg55

Yes this testing is getting addicting, its like roller coaster, I have not hit the big drop yet tho it feels like, still climbing

YEa i gotta trust the two people that i talked to that cycle wont bother the Safestart. (i think it was dead on a arival any way lol)

Yes all those gold fish defently did my ammonia and not doing a water change was stupid on my part but cant go back now and just have to wait.

But according to them the roller coaster is about to start

Shawnie

your levels should be right at the mark of 0-0-under 20 after 7-10 days...her telling you 2 weeks is way off from what ive heard and experienced....after 7 days, report what the readings are...do not let it go 2 weeks....deffinately keep us updated!! what is the new test kit you are getting? some give false readings and if you dont have a good one, that could freak you out if they are telling you something wrong

lousieg55

The Tetra one i think, Marineland labs is sending it to me because a mess up and trying to make things right. (great company and asked what i wanted to make it right and i said that they said no problem) So it will be one of there test kits marinland,tetra which ever one of those company's that makes it i will have lol.

Yea she said usually a week or less but she said i can in some cases take 2 weeks but pretty certain it would only take a week.

Should i test in week (or start like sat-sun) or test every day.

I will defiantly report back as soon as i have more info for you guys. And how everything is going but just from a observational view fish today> fish yesterday, they are moving around alot more today then yesterday which i would take it as a good sign

Shawnie

if you dont want to go insane, id NOT test everyday ..it will be all over the place readings wise...if you want to keep track for your own purposes, its fine ...if you can let it be lol...but after 7-10 days, if you are NOT cycled, id do a huge water change and repeat with the other bottle for 7-10 days more...im not sure id trust her telling you the tank is ok with the product cycle in there , as she gave you info that 2 weeks is ok with the TSS..unless they changed the formula and I dont know about that

lousieg55

No she told me a week is normal, but in some rare cases it can take 2 weeks but she said 99 percent of the time it will be a week and fine.

I sent them an email too lol, Try to get as many people as i can to answer the question but so fare its 2-0 for yes it will still work with cycle.

lousieg55

When should i start to see my ammonia drop, I tested again today and its still at like about 3.0 PPM is it really just gonna drop one day out of the blue.

I know you guys say wait 7-10 days but shouldent i see something changing.

agabr123

i'd really suggest waiting a few days before you test again, give the safe start some time to work. however, if in three or four days it hasn't dropped at all, then i'd go ahead and do a huge water change, completely rinse out the filter media (or toss it and buy brand new) and then start over with the new bottle of TSS and no other chemicals in the tank except for your water conditioner

lousieg55

Okay, You know how hard that is lol.

Also the elevated levels of Ammonia in my tank before adding safestart will that affect it in any way, was Reading in some posts that to much ammonia and the bacteria has a problem.

Also the guy at tetra said i could do a 20 percent water change tomorrow and give it a couple more days he said most of the beneficial bacteria is on the plants rocks ect.

lousieg55

Also why are you guys saying throw out the filter media whats wrong with it.

agabr123

lol, yeah i know.

it could definitely be that there is just too much ammonia in the tank for the TSS to be able to work properly, i have a feeling that that may be the case. i'd actually go ahead and do the 20% water change that he suggested

you should throw it out because there could still be some of the product cycle on it, which will compete with the bacteria from the TSS and not allow it to establish as readily.

jdhef

I didn't test my water for a full week when I used TSS, but when I cycled with fish, my ammonia levels didn't drop gradually. Instead they dropped all at once. So that may be the case with SafeStart.

But, you can see why it is recommended not to check the water for a week. Already you are getting nervous, even though you know that for the first week the numbers will be bad.

lousieg55

Hello,

Once you do a water change, please wait about 24 hours before you add
the SafeStart product. If your ammonia is extremely high, the safestart
will not be able to do its job. So, you will need to do small water
changes to try to get the ammonia levels below 1.5. Once you have
accomplished this, the safestart product will be able to seed itself and
grow from that point, which will essentially allow the aquarium to
naturally take of the ammonia itself.

Regards,

Tetra Care

Direct from tetra... Pretty much means i wasted 20 bucks on that big bottle( STUPID LCF STORE ) Im going with my gut next time and changing my water.

SO im about to leave to work right now but when i get home im going to do a 50 percent water change, wait 24 hours, another 25 percent water change, ADD safestart, Clean my FIlter i guess. And go from there, Now i want to go buy another big bottle
: ;smack

kwesdog

Truck,

You may still be able to save it without having to buy more TSS. What happened to you is somewhat similar to what happened to me months ago. I had a few platies and corys in a 14 gallon that I could not get the ammonia to drop for anything. I was doing daily water changes to try and help but it didnt matter. The ammonia stayed high but I was showing both Nitrites and Nitrates so I knew something was working. A few more days went by and for the life of me I could not figure out why I was still showing ammonia then it hit me by surprise during a water change to look in the filter. During all the water changes I had been kicking up alot of dead and rotting organic matter that was building up in the mesh part of the filter. I did another 25% water change and swapped out to a brand new filter element and lo and behold I was down to 0-0 and under 5 for readings within 48 hours.

I have since added more fish to that tank to bring it to close to fully stocked and I have yet to see any ammonia or nitrites and I rarely even have a hint of nitrates. My tank is heavily planted now also and this helps alot.

I learned the hard way with my 14 gallon and have since started up a 55 and a 3 (for all the platy fry I now have) and havent had a problem with anything other than phosphates from my wife feeding the fish too much when I go on trips.

Harry

lousieg55

OKay well, I felt it went long enough with the 3.5-4.0ppm ammonia for my fish in the tank, and seem to be going no were with my nits, I figured the first shot with tetra safestart was a bust with so much ammonia, "cycle" in the tank and stuff so, I just did about a 50 percent water change.

**** that is not an easy task, and then once you get all the water out of there you nock over half your stuff poring the new water in. I think tomorrow if i do another water change im going to use a smaller bucket to poor the water into the tank so it does not have so much force and i can control it more.

Ill let every know what my readings are tomorrow, I only have ammonia right now as my new test kit has not come in yet. and my stupid waste of money test strips are to hard to read but i dont think it really showing anything.

So we will see tomorrow, Be nice if i can get it to .5ppm and then add the small bottle of safestart but i guess its better then nothing, Might go back out and get a big bottle.

agabr123

good luck

lousieg55

Thanks yea, i think it was just to much Ammonia for the safestart to handle, that was even with the big bottle of safestart 250ml --20 bucks down the drain

Lol oh well what can you do right.

I'm debating on if i want to go get the big bottle again, Because the small bottle says up to 30 gallon, Which i have 29 gallon. So right at the limit so not sure if i will really see a difference in speed or not but donno we will see still have at least 1 more water change im pretty sure to see were my ammonia is and go from there.

Shawnie

hey truckguy...the smaller bottle will be fine..and if you go that route again, do this...

complete water changes until your ammonia is much lower...if you have to, do a few 50% water changes over a few days..using your conditioner...you can even do 2 50% water changes a day as long as you have 5-6 hours in between....when you see you ammonia down to 1-2 ppm's stop your water changes and give it 24 hours to let the conditioner settle.. ...then add the bottle of TSS and wait again....

usually you wouldnt have this issue but the "cycle" product you used, is most likely the effect of not being cycled with the TSs...also, check the date on your TSS bottle to make sure its not over a year old...

DONT loose faith..and kudo's to you for not giving up!

lousieg55

NO no def not giving up, I have over 300 invested in the tank with out fish lol. But its not even the money i really enjoy and miss having a tank.

I... Like most am impatient and would like to see results faster then the normal cycle.

I'm not to sure about the cycle product as to every tetra person i talked to said not to worry about it but i do think the 4.0ppm Ammonia is what did me in. I guess live and learn.

Couple questions. First i wanna say, I'm not adding any TSS until ammonia is like .5 or less (Me and Ammonia are at war and I'm gonna win )

1. I'm prob going to do at least 1 more 50 percent water change if not 2.
When i do a water change say i change 15 gallons if i add 20ml of aqua safe is that bad... the bottle says to use 10ml per 10 gallons. Is it going to hurt to have a little more.

2. My girlfriends dad has a 10 gallon tank with about 100 Guppies(were i got mine from) yes i know its a crazy amount but the water is clear and they are alive don't ask lol, theres also a sucker fish that is about 4-5 inch's long.
So my question is with his tank, I'm pretty sure he will have some good bacteria should i steal his filter the replaceable one and just buy him a new one...THis will not affect his tank correct.
Also anything else i should take from him.

3.I should take all the stuff from GF dads tank and add TSS after 24 hours of run time and ammonia is nice and low correct.

4. Last question should i clean out my filters really good, shake it in the water a little, or buy a new one.
At tetra they said to just shake it out in the water again saying the cycle wont do anything it was my high ammonia.

Long post sowwie, but I'm Finlay feel like I'm am making head way(only 50 bucks wasted so fare and 2 weeks )

Shawnie

you have access to an established tank? take your test kit over there and test it to make sure its cycled....(dont need more headaches if its not ) and if it is..........

yes cut some of his media off ,,(do not take his filter and put a new one on or you will put his tank into a mini cycle)

yes get some of his gravel and a couple decorations....

no do not clean out your filter...at this point leave it be as the product cycle im sure is gone...but if its all cruddy, you can swish it in some tank water that you remove in a bucket...

lousieg55

Yea i fogrot to mention that.

I will go over there later tonight, Ill bring my ammonia tester and my crappy 5-1 in one petco stip tester, Im pretty sure his tank is cycled is over 2 years old and has like 100 little guppies lol think they all be dead if it was not but ill check see what i read.

When you say cut some of his media off what do you mean by that...

And im about to do another 50 percent water change this should bring me below 1.0...Can i add his stuff tonight to my tank.