Shaner014

Ok, so I officially became fed up with daily water changes this evening when my cat caused me to spill 3 gallons of water all over the living room. Oops. Sorry for the novel ahead... and my other threads, though I am all the wiser from asking those other questions.

I have tracked down Tetra Safe Start locally, Finally! If I wasn't stubborn and just ordered it online to begin with I probably would have saved a lot of headaches. Oh well.

Getting to the point... I plan on using TSS on my ten gallon tank as soon as I feel I'm ready to do it properly.. this is where you guys come in (Thanks in advance for the help, this site has been amazing and I truly am infinitely grateful) I have read the other threads but each tank is one of a kind so I decided to spell it all out.

I have read it shouldn't be used with prime because prime detoxes ammonia. I have Jungle Start Right and will use that for the water change before I use TSS. However, at 8:30pm (4/13/09) I did a 25% water change with a double dose of prime, how long should I wait before I add the TSS?

I plan on doing a 60-70% water change before adding the TSS, and removing the Carbon from my filter cartridge by taking it apart, it's one of those tetra internal whisper filters (the 10i) that has the filter pads which come apart (it's been in there 3 weeks so the carbon should be about spent, I don't want it releasing anything while the TSS is in there) That is my plan... however should I just add a completely new filter all together? (not the black sponge part, just the white pad) I don't think my tank is cycled at all so I'm not sure there's even any beneficial bacteria on the thing, furthermore I added stress zyme 9 days ago and I don't know if that could still be lurking in the filter pad? So keep old filter and remove carbon, or add brand new?

Does this sound like a solid plan? If you have ANY recommendations please let me know, I feel bad for making a whole thread on fish-in cycling only to go this route now, but hopefully this will be the end of my struggles and I can start helping people from my experience.

I'm going to update this thread everyday with water parameters while using TSS (I know it throws readings off but readings are readings), I'm sure someone else will be in my situation and a record of levels might help them out, assuming all goes well for me. And this way if you guys see something out of the ordinary you can let me know. Pictures too if I can find the time! And fish observations.

Thanks! -Shane

First readings, 4/13/09 (No TSS at this point)

amm: .25 - .5
trites: 0
trates: 0-5

betta: Healthy, Active
6 Neons: Healthy, Schooling well, Active

Edit: Pic added, turns out my phone takes a good enough picture after all. The neons are hiding in the bottom left corner, I know they need more cover, but until its cycled I wanted to wait on a set in stone aquascape. I don't use the overhead light at this point because it freaks them out, they get natural daylight (not direct sun) and are very active

Attached Images

photo.jpg (150.3 KB, 138 views)

agabr123

since you used stress zyme, i'd err on the side of caution and toss the filter media and start completely over, and dump out the carbon from the new media as well. do a large water change (you can use prime as long as you wait 24 hours, the time it takes to stop working), and then add all of the TSS.

make sure that you give the TSS a full 7-10 days to work before you think about doing any water changes. it will be tempting to do a water change especially when you take the readings on the tank, but give it a chance to work before you do good luck!

Indian_villager

Your have a fairly interesting bioload to be trying something like tss. I'd say overdose on the TSS if anything

jdhef

While Prime detoxifies ammonia, it does leave it available to feed the bacteria, so you should be fine.

thumper

so if you use tss you are supose to remove the carbon out of the filter media?

Shaner014

Thumper I don't think it is suppose to effect the TSS, but I decided against carbon for future use (unless my tank starts to smell) and so removing it before I cycle with TSS will allow me to leave the cycled media in the filter without disturbing it for a while afterwards, as I was due to replace the carbon this week or next.

As of this morning, I've replaced the old filter with a new pad only, no activated carbon. Around 8pm tonight I'm going to do a large 60-75% water change, check parameters after an hour or so, then begin the TSS treatment.

thumper

ok i understand now thank you for the info why you did it that way!

Shaner014

Ok, today around 6:30pm I did a 75% water change using Start Right de-chlorinator instead of Prime. I allowed the fish to resettle into the new water for 1 and a half hours. The readings right before I added TSS were:

amm: .25
trites: 0
trates: nearly 0

All fish healthy looking and acting normal.

As I am writing this post, 7:55pm, I have just introduced a 100ml bottle of TSS. The water went real cloudy for about 5 minutes, and is now clearing nicely. The fish act as if nothing has happened. I will do water tests before bed and edit this post!

Edit: Just some extra info: I did put in a brand new filter pad after removing the activated carbon from it. I know this was probably unnecessary, but I'm leaving nothing to chance. Temp is steady between 78-80F. So basically I started completely over with this setup. (sucks because I first set it up 3/20/09! haha) I have not lost a single fish to date though, which gives me some relief. Knock on wood.... Another Edit to come later with parameters after adding TSS


Edit 2: Did another water test, and will continue from here on out around 10:30pm each night.

amm: 0-.25 (maybe I'm imagining it, but seems lower!)
trites: 0
trates: 0-5

agabr123

good luck!

Shawnie

usually when adding tss, it should be without any other additives...start right contains Allantoin which is a form of uric acid...im not sure if that will play any part or not on the tss and its effectiveness......goodluck and I hope things get done for you!! I know you have been frustrated

Shaner014

ugh... wish I had known that... but I don't know if I could justify buying a THIRD de-chlorinator haha. Lets hope it doesn't effect it!

Shawnie

the best way with tss is a huge water change with your dechlorinator, then 24 hours later add the tss...that way theres no other factors or chemicals to alter and inhibit the tss what so ever..but again, it may be just fine....if I were you and all the headaches you have had, I wouldnt test again for a few days or you will be more uptight ..and dont add anything else for the 7-10 days at least!

Shaner014

Haha I know, but I've become addicted to knowing, and until they do zero out I'm gunna keep testing once a day. This will also let me (and anyone else) know how long it took to work in my situation

Shawnie

I understand..ive kept a log with every tank ive used tss on lol ...

Shaner014

Quick update. Just water tested

amm: .25
trites: 0
trates: 10

Betta is acting normal, healthy
Neons were spooked, as I woke them with this test. They lose their color every night about an hour after lights out. Which was earlier than usually tonight. But by the time of this post though, they have woken up and all color has returned, seem normal

BulldogWrestler

You'll drive yourself nuts testing each day. Just relax and treat your tank like everything is fine - and then 7-10 days later test the water and go from there.

Beth1965

Oh man, I wish I could relax and wait 7-10 days. I treated with TSS last night and I can wait to get home & test.

Shaner014

I appreciate the input, but the thread details why I'm testing everyday. Besides I like knowing, and seeing the cycle happen

ccb04

Shawnie, what about starting from scratch? I should be able to set up my 20 Long this weekend ... as the additional decor, etc... will be here.

With the TSS, how should I approach this in your opinion? If adding fish right off the bat (but not the TSS), and then waiting 24 hrs. to add the TSS, it would seem that without using something like Prime, SC+, etc... the fish could then be exposed to ammonia from the breaking of the chloramine bond.

Without fish, I could simply use API's tap water conditioner and let the system run for 24 hrs... then add a couple of fish with a bottle of TSS.

Any suggestions?

Shaner014

In my opinion, I would set up the tank using any dechlorinator, let it run for 24-48 hours for the temp and gas levels to even out then add fish with TSS at the same time. The ammonia from the chloramine break wont be more than the fish will naturally produce in the first few hours, so it's kind of a trivial point.

Having said that, as you can see I've had a heck of a time cycling, and have gone to TSS as a last effort. I would do a fishless cycle if I could go back. Or even a fishless cycle along with TSS as a booster. Having fish in the tank only raises your stress and their's.

jdhef

I second Shaner014's advice above. It is also the directions on the back of the bottle.

Shawnie

I 3rd the advice...starting from scratch and if you have city water where chlorine and chlorimydes are a part of it, fill the tank with your prime and water...24 hours later add fish and tss ..7-10 days see where it stands and go from there

ccb04

Thanks for the advice.

Shaner014

Update:

Same place I was last night,

amm: .25
trites: 0
trates: 10

Fish are all Normal

Shaner014

Update:

amm: .25
trites: 0
trates: 10

Fish all are normal

... hoping to see some change soon... will keep updating

Shaner014

Missed readings last night as I was setting up a 44 gallon.

This morning

amm: Trace
trites: 0
trates: 5-10

It's tough to tell if the amm is zero or not

fish are all normal

it's been 4 and half days and no rise in amm so something has to be going on in there

Shawnie

its getting there!! i usually have to have the bf look at my ammonia as the yellow and very lite green confuse me LOL ...he puts it up against our white wall...duh on my end hahah

lousieg55

Glad things are working out for you, How long has TSS been in your tank.

The Uke

I also had trouble telling if the ammonia color was yellow or a little bit chartreuse yet, so I did an ammonia test on tap water (mine has 0 PPM of ammonia) and then compared the vials of tap water and tank water

Shaner014

I tried this trick to, and I assume my tap is 0 but I cant be sure? They do match however so i'd say its 0. I added the TSS on the 14 truckguy