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February 21st, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Ammonia on Fishless Cycle - question...
Hi Everybody,
Just other day I was celebrating that I thought I was almost over with the fishless cycle, but I'm a little confused because the ammonia is not really going down as fast as it was before...
The ammonia was lowering from 4.0 down to 2.0 or that the way I interpreted the results in a 24hr window, but now, I've been stuck with 2.0 ammonia for over 3 days 
I hope I'm not doing any mistakes!!! and somehow killing some bacteria, but why? I can't seem to figure it out...
Is whats happening to my tank normal Does anybody knows?
My current readings are:
ammonia - in between 1.0 and 2.0
nitrites - 0.0
nitrates - 80
Another question....Is there such a thing as de-worming a new fish? If anyone knows how or what do I use I would appreciate...
Thanks  | 
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February 21st, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Since you have high levels of nitrates things would seem right on track. However did you cut the amount of ammonia you’ve been adding by half? If not you should. If for example, you were adding 10 drops of ammonia to raise your ammonia level to 4ppm you should have cut that to 5 drops when you first saw levels of nitrates.
You really should not treat healthy fish. “Worms” (parasites) can come in two forms, internal and external and both are treated differently. A quarantine tank is important in the hobby of fish keeping. By quarantining your fish you will be able to look for signs of illness and treat only your new fish as required. | |
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February 21st, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozey  Since you have high levels of nitrates things would seem right on track. However did you cut the amount of ammonia you’ve been adding by half? If not you should. If for example, you were adding 10 drops of ammonia to raise your ammonia level to 4ppm you should have cut that to 5 drops when you first saw levels of nitrates.
You really should not treat healthy fish. “Worms” (parasites) can come in two forms, internal and external and both are treated differently. A quarantine tank is important in the hobby of fish keeping. By quarantining your fish you will be able to look for signs of illness and treat only your new fish as required. | Agreed. Unnecessary exposure of Med to microbes will diminsh its effectiveness down the road. | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Thanks for the reply Dozey
I think I'm a little paranoid with the nytrogen cycle...I keep worring if I will kill the bacteria...if maybe ammonia is not going down because I don't have enough bacteria yet...After the experience I had with my first fishes...and I saw them dying little by little, one by one...I think I'm affraid it will happen again... | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by melfrany Thanks for the reply Dozey
I think I'm a little paranoid with the nytrogen cycle...I keep worring if I will kill the bacteria...if maybe ammonia is not going down because I don't have enough bacteria yet...After the experience I had with my first fishes...and I saw them dying little by little, one by one...I think I'm affraid it will happen again... | I certainly can understand your concerns. I kept fish for many years when the attitude towards fish was that they were just fish and didn’t matter much. My feelings have changed a great deal since those days and I give my fish as much respect as I would any other pet in my care.
But your cycle seems to be going very well. Just cut down on the ammonia you are adding. It’s a fine line, ammonia will feed bacteria in low levels but it will also kill bacteria in high levels. At your current success when you can add enough ammonia to raise the level in your aquarium to 2ppm and have the ammonia reach 0ppm in twelve hours you are cycled.
At that point change the aquarium water right down to the gravel to eliminate the nitrates down to a safe level (>20ppm). And be prepared to add 3 maybe 4 small fish.
IMO your cycle is going very well and you will have harmed no fish in the process. I salute you for that. A little more time and you will be enjoying your aquarium. | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Not everything or to a great extent is know about the N cycle with respect to bacteria colonies and the affects of toxins on them. With nitrates at 80 PPM, nitrates being the only waste and toxin these bacteria cannot consume, I wonder if this has a hampering effect on their growth. After all if fish were present and only nitrates were out of bounds we would be doing daily water chnages, in fact daily water chnages are the norm in both aquarium "with fish cycling" and in a matter of speaking in natural rivers, lakes, and streams. This slow cycling phenomena in fishless cycling seems to be a rarity in "with fish" cycles and of course in nature as well. Of course we tend to humanize natures cycle of life that seems so cruel to us even if its natural. Point is "with fish " cycling is no more stressful to fish as it is to bacteria and is a part of life for all organisms including ourselves IMHO. If water changes seem to not interfere but even help "with fish" cycling, perhaps a water change at some point (high nitrates) is in order as if fish were present in a fishless cycle.
Last edited by CWO4GUNNER; February 22nd, 2009 at 10:30 AM.
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Quote:
Originally Posted by CWO4GUNNER Point is "with fish " cycling is no more stressful to fish as it is to bacteria and is a prat of life for all organisms IMHO. | The bacteria in a cycled tank needs the ammonia to feed. This is far different than exposing a fish to ammonia poisoning. Ammonia is certainly a cause for stress in fish. As the fish tries to adapt to this assault, it lowers it's resistance making it more susceptible to disease such as ICH, fungus and bacterial infections.
Completely inhumane IMHO.
melfrany, congrats on choosing to cycle fish less 
Last edited by Lucy; February 22nd, 2009 at 10:43 AM.
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Interesting thought Gunner. I have wondered that as well. I have seen alot of people say DONT chagne the water but I haven't seen why.
I have been cycling since Jan. 5th and for the last several weeks I haven't seen any changes in my numbers.
Ammonia does drop from 1 ppm to 0 in about 12 hours
Nitrites have stayed the same over the last few weeks at .5
They do not climb or drop despte the fact that ammonia is being processed well.
Nitrates stay the same at 80 ppm as well.
I just keep feeding the tank hoping to wake up one morning and have my nitrites gone but for three weeks now.... .5 over and over.
I may try a large water change to see what hapens. I know it at the very least make the green water unhappy to lose some nitrates.
IS this foolish or worth a shot
PS SORRY TO HIJACK AND I WILL START A NEW THREAD IF NEEDED | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| That's a long time. I cant see where a small say 25% treated (for chlorine) water change and a couple hours later addition of more bacteria could hurt. Just make sure the new water is treated for a few minutes before you put it inside. At this rate there is nothing to lose and even if it doesn't work, at least we might learn something. | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| I'll keep waiting until it is perfectly cycled...thanks for all the support !!
Dozey and Lucy .... a special thanks to you, because you always came to my rescue...I appreciate how kind to the animals you are...thanks.
Melissa
Last edited by melfrany; February 22nd, 2009 at 11:53 AM.
Reason: have to add more info | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Helper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozey I certainly can understand your concerns. I kept fish for many years when the attitude towards fish was that they were just fish and didn’t matter much. My feelings have changed a great deal since those days and I give my fish as much respect as I would any other pet in my care.
But your cycle seems to be going very well. Just cut down on the ammonia you are adding. It’s a fine line, ammonia will feed bacteria in low levels but it will also kill bacteria in high levels. At your current success when you can add enough ammonia to raise the level in your aquarium to 2ppm and have the ammonia reach 0ppm in twelve hours you are cycled.
At that point change the aquarium water right down to the gravel to eliminate the nitrates down to a safe level (>20ppm). And be prepared to add 3 maybe 4 small fish.
IMO your cycle is going very well and you will have harmed no fish in the process. I salute you for that. A little more time and you will be enjoying your aquarium. |
Im at the same stage. my NH3 levels drop back to 0 over night. But that does not mean my cycle is complete. Since the NH3 is being processed it has caused my NO2 levels to spike. You do have to wait for that to cycle down to 0 as well to have the cycle be complete. When that occurs, you do a water change and then add fish.
At least thats the path I have been following after reading almost every post on this site. lol | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Quote:
Originally Posted by DE88ROX Im at the same stage. my NH3 levels drop back to 0 over night. But that does not mean my cycle is complete. Since the NH3 is being processed it has caused my NO2 levels to spike. You do have to wait for that to cycle down to 0 as well to have the cycle be complete. When that occurs, you do a water change and then add fish.
At least thats the path I have been following after reading almost every post on this site. lol | Hi DE88ROX
I also read almost everything in this post...Isn't it crazy? I get home after having a crazy busy day and the last thing I usually do before sleeping is to check what is going on in here, what are people asking that I can also use...Also the people that are experienced are really kind to the animals...Maybe people should talk much more about animal cruelty, which you end up doing when you hear what the supposedly "fish specialists" from big stores like PetCo tell you to do when you buy your first aquarium...
Anyways, good luck with your cycling! | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Helper
| I know its nuts. Im just now am getting my tank back up and running after we moved 4 years ago. Im on this site almost everyday trying to learn as much as I can. The people here are AWESOME!!!!!! They never tire of answering the same question 5 times a day. lol I have yet to run into anyone being rude.
My neighbor has a 75g saltwater tank and I have told him about this site as well. | |
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February 22nd, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| With respect to "animal cruelty and supposedly fish specialists from big stores like PetCo". While I agree that that there are retailers that treat their fish like discardable inventory and customers like golden gooses, there is plenty of blame to go around. After all it is us as consumers that have placed the demand to take from the environment what we now coin as ornamental fish and while there are breeders out there a great majority of these fish are still taken out of their "pristine" natural habitat for our viewing pleasure because we create that demand. So while none of us would argue that deliberately tormenting an animal is excusable, let us never lose sight of the truth that we as consumers are primarily responsible for all the stress on fish and the environment. But I like so many others am willing and able to face this truth believing that with good intentions and stewardship all of Gods creatures are for our useful purpose and enjoyment. From keeping, viewing, hunting and consuming all creatures were created and intended for our benefit and subjugation.
Last edited by CWO4GUNNER; February 22nd, 2009 at 05:50 PM.
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