shadowavenger

I read alot of bad things about these fish and I don't really agree or understand why they get so much negativity because mine is actually a very good fish. I have had it for about 2 months now and I got it to replace my deceased plecostomus. It was only about an inch long when I brought it home and its just shy of 3 inches now. It has done a great job of keeping the tank clean and had proven to be a very rugged fish surviving a highly toxic ammonia build up, an emergency tank transfer to a tank which didn't even have time to allow the water to adjust to room temperature and then survived the nitrogen cycle after I sterilized and reactivated my tank after my mass fish kill (I didn't know about the nitrogen cycle at that time). I know these fish become territorial and he has been but they way they are portrayed on most sites is like a blood biting piranha who wants to kill anything that comes near it. In fact, he is very territorial but as long as he has his cave, he doesn't bother the other fish. The worst he does is chase the molly when she gets too close (and the molly is really bad about chasing the platies, and the danios chase each other) but other than that he just sticks to glass or hangs out in the cave. I know he may get much bigger but he is in a 14 gallon tank so I don't think he will get as big as they say. So far, I really like the fish. Hopefully he stays docile, but so far the only aggression I have seen is very minimal at worst. I hear good things about oto cats but I have never seen then at pet stores. I would like to get one or two if the algae eater has to be deported but I don't think he will get too bad.

Nick G

Thats because he's still young. When they're little they're fine. It's once they get to about 6 inchs that they become nasty. They also grow way too big for a 14gal. I'd say they want a 55gal minimum

Blub

He can't get to full size in a 14gal - he will become stunted, stressed (adding to the aggresion problems he will encounter later on in his life) and lead a much shorter, sadder life. If I where you, I'd return him. You don't really need an algae eatrer n the tank - I've got to say that keeping your water parameters in top shape is by far the most effective algae killer! Also, if you are having algae problems, you may need to turn the lights on for a shorter period (8hours) every day.

Dozey

To avoid aggression CAE’s should be kept in very large tanks. Although peaceful when young they continue to become more aggressive as they age. In a 120 gallon tank the CAE’s tank mates will have enough room to respects the CAE’s territory. In a 14 gallon you will likely soon have a killer CAE on your hands.

Aside from that CAE’s can reach lengths of 10+ inches. Far too large for a 14 gallon tank.

treve

I had two of them way back when told by guy at LFS they would be perfect for my tank and get on with my community fish'that was my first mistake listening to guy at lfs.they were cute and active at the start but when they got older and bigger they changed for the worst. i was getting up in the morning and had badly damaged fish who did not recover,i had a silver mollie with deep hole in its side another morning.i took the day of work and put the two in a bag and took them back to lfs who told me they could not take them back but i did not leave with them.
i now stick with corys they are cute and active

platy ben

When CAEs are young they do an incredible jobo f cleaning the tank, i had one for around 6 years but in the last 6 months he killed 2 angelfish and severely damaged the other 2.
Hes back at the LFS now.

steve_58

I don't have any CAE'S but i was in petco yesterday with wife and was looking at algae eaters. They had some CAE's in a tank and as i stood there watching them a couple of them were fighting pretty good amoungst themselves.The ones in that tank were all around 4" long.They definately would'nt be good in a smaller tank with smaller fish.

CHoffman

You've gotten some great advice. CAE are not bad fish but like any other fish they are compatible with some fish and not others and require a certain amount of space. They can be great in certain tanks..They need 55 gallon and shouldn't be kept with slower moving fish or flat bodied fish like Angelfish. I found this out after I had bought mine. I found mine a suitable home where I knew he would be taken care of. He hadn't shown any signs of aggressions but my tank was to small and he wouldn't be happy. I would say find him a good big home with a knowledgeable fish keeper or take him back to the LFS.

shadowavenger

One thing that I have noticed and is very strange is that my algae eater only seems to chase the molly. I have 6 danios which swim around it all the time and it never chases after them, occasionally it will chase a platy but I've seen the platies hideout in the cave right along with the algae eater and thye get along fine, but as soon as the molly comes withing a few inches, the algae eater charges it. I haven't seen it get very aggressive and fight or latch on to anything, but Im curious as to why the molly is habitually attacked whereas the danios aren't and the platies very very rarely.

sirdarksol

Mollies tend to range the full height of an aquarium. Aren't danios normally at the top? That might explain it.
As juveniles, the CAEs aren't going to latch onto other fish (and never will, if you keep them eating algae), and aren't able to latch onto smaller fish at all. However, they can still get aggressive enough to hurt other fish as they grow older, especially if kept in a too-small tank.

Iron waffle

Yeah, these fish are surrounded with myths. Firstly, they only usually get to 6" in the aquarium. secondly, they aren't too aggressive, all mine did was stay at the bottom, eating lettuce and looking for food, minding his business and no one bothered him. he died after a month for no reason.

CHoffman

Just like any fish each one a different personalities...A lot of people have luck with them...But it sounds like his is already showing aggressive behavior at a young age. ..MIght end up with some problems with this feisty guy.

Iron waffle

I guess mine was an exception then. I still really miss him, he was a really good clean up crew and very peaceful.

sirdarksol

This is an unfortunate quasi-myth based on people keeping their algae-eaters in too-small of tanks. If a fish stops growing significantly sooner than its full size, the most common reason for it is that it has outgrown the space it is living in. Fish seem to have something that limits their growth in small/crowded spaces. This keeps them from severely outgrowing a space, keeping them from starving quickly. However, this is only a short term thing, meant to get fish through short tough periods, like the dry season in Asia or Africa. If it happens continuously, the fishes' organs get compacted, and numerous other problems develop.

Blub

I believe (Almost certain) that the external body stops growing, but the internal organs carry on growing.

agabr123

that's what everything I've read has suggested....

Blub

I really need to stop speed reading forum posts...

sirdarksol

I have since done some research on the issue (due to a Wikipedia editing discussion, actually), and I have been able to find no support for the "organs continue to grow" theory. Hatcheries routinely and purposefully stunt fish growth, it seems (though I have no idea why they would do so), and people have done studies on the effects of doing so.

One study, done on a type of carp (and so is pretty relevant to the CAE, who is a cousin of the carp), worked with fish stunted for six, twelve, and twenty four months. These carp, when given a chance to grow after the stunting period, did so, almost at the same rate as their unstunted brethren. However, the fish suffered from a drop in reproductive capability (and the 24 monthers showed a complete lack of reproductive capability.) Unfortunately, they did not discuss internal organ size, which I would have found very interesting to see.

Another study, done on a type of catfish, investigated the stunting effects on the catfish's kidney, which rests up near the head. They tested catfish up to eight years at normal growth, and then fifteen year old catfish that had only been allowed to grow to the size of a yearling.
The stunted catfish had a kidney of a much younger catfish. By eight years, this kidney is normally breaking down into waste tissue, it seems. However, in the stunted catfish, who were seven years older than the full-grown catfish, they were still fully formed, and were a size that would be expected in their body.
Unfortunately, this only tested a single organ. I would have liked to see reports on the other organs, particularly the heart, as well.

So there seems to be a lack of support for the organ growth theory, but there definitely is support that stunting fish causes some sort of systemic harm beyond the damage done by the conditions that stunted the fish.

agabr123

lol me too.

sirdarksol - perhaps it leads to stunted organ growth rather than continued growth, so in that case the organs wouldn't be able to support the body

sirdarksol

The two studies I read didn't suggest that, either, but the tests were limited in scope. In one study, the fish showed almost perfectly normal growth and health after being stunted (aside from the reproductive issues). In the other, the kidney was actually functioning better than a "normal" kidney.
However, both of these studies were based in the fisheries, and were based on producing fish that would reach a salable size in a cost-effective amount of time. They were not, I think, concerned with the long-term health of the fish. Once the fish is at adult size, it becomes food.
It's really too bad that the studies were done in such limited scope, and that there have been so few of them. I will continue to periodically check EbscoHost and the other scientific article databases. Hopefully more of these studies will be done, and we'll be able to piece things together.

agabr123

Yeah, and also they only tested for a year or less? I don't think that really shows the full scope of what could happen after a lifetime of say an oscar in a 10 gallon tank or whatever the case may be.

sirdarksol

One of them tested for 6, 12, and 24 month periods, the other tested on 15-year stunted catfish, so both tested for a decent length of time, though the first still didn't cover the life of many aquarium fish.

agabr123

oh okay, i missed that the catfish was stunted for 15 years. i'd like to see but i don't necessarily know that it's worth it unless they were able to just find fish that already had been stunted without doing it themselves or something like that.

sirdarksol

No, for some reason, the fisheries trade actively stunts fish (perhaps as a method of efficient "storage" for times when they need them. Remove the water parameters that are stunting the fish and watch it grow!) That was why they did these studies. They were looking into how stunting fish affects the fisheries' efficiency. Until someone with money says "hey, I want to know how this affects a fish's general health," we're not likely to get all of the information on this issue in one big lump, so we'll have to content ourselves with what we have.
For the time being, at least we can say that science supports the claim that prolonged stunting is detrimental to the fish's long term health.

gremlin

Back to the issue of cae's and aggression - i have three in my pond (150+ gallons) with my goldfish. They have never shown aggression towards any of the other fish. I think as long as the cae has enough food and enough hiding places they will do fine. One should be ok in a 20 gallon long tank. Not anything smaller than that, and a 29 gallon or larger would be better. Have at least 3 hiding places, and if you have more cae's, then add two more hiding places and another 20-30 gallons for each cae. In addition to the algae, I feed mine bottom feeder scavenger tablets that are for omnivores. They also like shrimp pellets. Right now all three of mine are sharing a 40 gallon breeder tank with two sailfin plecos for the winter. They go through about 1/2 cup of moss (out of mine and my sister's ponds) every day in addition to the tablets and shrimp pellets. Any time I see a cae going after another fish in the pet stores, it is usually very thin and probably hasn't been fed enough. My theory is that they are not naturally inclined to latch onto other fish, but do so out of sheer hunger. Once they learn of this source of "food", it is a hard habit to break. You say you have one cave in for your cae - I would suggest putting at least one more cave or hollow log in for an additional hiding place. This may help with the aggression towards the mollie. Also, drop in an omnivore/bottom feeder tablet once in a while. It will be a welcome treat.

JWalker

Ive got a CAE in my tank for about a month now. He has been behaving all the time, minding his own business. But..... i see that now he has gotten more confidence in the tank and i noticed him trying to latch onto my Gouramis 3 times in the space of a few minutes. He is actually following them around and waiting for them to slow so he can attack. He is going back to the lfs soon and im not going to get anther CAE ever. the lfs told me its a great fish and i wouldnt have any problems with him, yeah right. i have 55G tank and the CAE is only 2-3inchs and its already behaving like this. No thanks have too many fish in the tank to lose over the CAE.