Nate McFin

Hi again!
I am pretty sure I messed my cycle up. My Nitrates were steadily were steadily climbing, my nitrites seemed to have spiked, and my ammonia was decling by 2 PPM over a 12 hour period. Diatoms were going nuts and I could feel I was almost there. That was 5 days ago.
On the 25th I had 2 ppm (down from 4 the night before) Nitrites were at 2ppm (they were at 10ppm on the 23rd) Nitrites were at 15-20 ppm. The water was low so I used stresscoat+ with a few gallons of water to top off the tank as it was making a ton of noise at night due to low water. I used alittle more than I should have too ( 5 ml ) My numbers have been at 1ppm ammonia, 2ppm nitrite and 5 ppm nitrate since then. I have only added ammonia most days since then but my numbers really dont seem to change much.
I began a little research to see if a water change might help and I came upon a link LUCY put up awhile back
http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Fishlesscycle.htm

I will post the relevent portion here...
"A large water change (50-70%) should be done before adding any fish to the tank to lower nitrate levels, which can be a pain to bring down later. When changing the water during a fishless cycle, do NOT use dechlorinators that also sequester ammonia, such as the very popular Amquel. I have heard from at least one individual who did everything right with regards to cycling her tank using this method... the tank cycled quickly, then she did a water change, then added a reasonable fishload the following day with more than adequate filtration, and observed both an ammonia and a nitrite spike. The only explanation that I could think of after questioning her extensively LED back to the Amquel. In a normal, established fish tank, the ammonia is being generated nearly constantly... in a fishless cycle however, the ammonia is added as a daily dose... IMO, it's concievable (though not really provable unless a lot more people experienced identical problems) that the Amquel temporarily deprived the bacteria of its food source, causing a minor die-back in the colony at the worst possible time... right before adding her fish. To be on the safe side, use a simple chlorine/chloriamine remover which does not affect your ammonia levels.
By similar logic, any other ammonia removing chemicals (eg. Ammo-lock) or resins (Amrid) should also be avoided while cycling... they will affect the cycle, extending it's duration or otherwise adversely affecting the bacterial colonies."
END QUOTE


My question is...by adding stresscoat+ (that detoxifies ammonia) did I ruin my cycle?? I was intrigued by only using a simple chlorine remover and not one to detoxify. What are your opinions on this??
-Nate-

Shawnie

stresscoat+ only detoxes for the fish but keeps it avail for the cycle..so no you didnt ruin it

agabr123

nope, i think those products "lock" in the ammonia, prime and stress coat + only detox, like shawnie said.

Dozey

There are two forms of ammonia, un-ionized (NH3) and ionized (NH4+). All aquarium test kits combine these forms together and are referred to as total ammonia. Long term exposure to both forms of ammonia is toxic to fish but NH3 is extremely toxic to fish even during very brief periods of exposure.

Prime, Stress Coat + and Ammo-Lock all convert NH3 to NH4+. NH4+ is far safer and tolerated by fish but bacteria are completely indifferent to feeding on NH3 or NH4+.

Any of the three above mentioned products will provide ammonia to bacteria colonization. Any product that removes (or “locks”) both NH3 and NH4+ will starve your cycle.

Chlorine and chloramine, found in most city tap water, will kill bacteria so it does need to be removed prior to being added to the aquarium. Although there is no reason to detoxify ammonia during a fishless cycle we inevitably do so when treating fresh water to remove chlorine and chloramine using the products we trust to do so.

docjr03

Dozey is right. One thing to add is that the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate don't do well in the presence of high ammonia, so you might not want to over-do your ammonia dosing until you see a change in your nitrite to nitrate numbers. On a side note, the AOB's only use ammonia for energy (think about it like fuel for your car or caffeine for you to get going in the am!,) they need other things (carbon source, amino acids/proteins and minerals, etc.) as well to actually grow.

Nate McFin

Thanks for the replies!~
I guess I have to just wait it out. Luckily I have been enjoying watching the cycle. Its all rather interesting and I have been researching things I never knew I would. Hopefully I will enjoy the fish and behaviors as much.
If I dont I guess I could just have a bunch of empty tanks going through the cycle all the time..lol A different form of MTS.heheh

CWO4GUNNER

For me there is no choice I either detox or lose 26 fish. Nitrates are slowly climbing but it is taking longer meanwhile ammonia is constantly spiking between 2-8 PPM daily. I am braking out the Paython for the first time today to for a 40% water change from the water softer to alleviate the agony of bucket water changes with RO. Wish us success.

Shawnie

detox is ok tho ...its when its locked up that it isnt...using the stress coat+ still kept the ammonia available for the cycle process but removed the nasties from the water ....

CWO4GUNNER

Well I look at it this way. For those brand names that label claim to make ammonia safe for the fish as well as for the bacteria in the filter to eat not affecting cycle. I figure their insurance company would not allow them to make a claim that was totally false and get sued. So I tend to believe their claims more so then disbelieve them.

Lucy

True. We've seen a lot of members stuck mid cycle because too much ammonia was added.
We have to remember we also use ammonia to clean around the house and kill bacteria.