brawlymcknuckles

So my daughter asked for an aquarium for Christmas, and not having any other pets we figured it was a great idea. I did extensive research, did everything by the book, yet EVERYTHING is going wrong. Here is a brief history;

I have a 10 gallon tank set up. It has a submersible heater, Elite Hush 10 filtration. I cycled it for 2 weeks without fish

- Readings before before fish, everything seemed perfect
- temp 78
- pH 7.2
- ammonia 0
- nitrate 0
- nitrite 0

- Add 4 male guppies, one of which immediately broke out with ICH. So I did a 50% water change a couple of days in and added aquarium salt to rid us of ich and slowly boosted temp up to 83. All levels still remained perfect for up to 2 weeks. Ich continued to get worse and worse, until 1 guppy died. That same day we noticed another guppy had what seemed to be fin rot. He died within 10 hours.

Growing more and more frustrated I consulted my local pet store (which is beyond useless), and finally turned to medication. I added coppersafe to the water and removed my activated carbon.

The 2 remaining guppies seem ok, but the water is like sludge now, my ammonia is way up and I can't keep it down no matter what I try.

- current readings
- temp 84
- pH 7.4
- ammonia between .5 and 1
- haven't tested nitrate and nitrite (getting test kit this evening)
- my tank also has an insane amount of particles floating around

Am I missing something here? Is there any hope for my poor guppies or am I destined to start the tank over. This started out a wonderful experience but I am now turning very sour on the whole thing.


Please help!!
Jason

Lucy

Hi Jason welcome to Fish Lore

Your tank is going through the nitrogen cycle. Here's a good article to help understand what's happening in your daughter's tank: Nitrogen Cycle

It would be a good idea to do 50% daily water changes and use Prime or Stress Coat+ as your water conditioner. These conditioners will detox making it safer for your fish. The ammonia will still be available to feed the bacteria your tank needs to sustain it's self.

Along with the nitrite and nitrate tests pick up a gravel vacuum. left over food and fish waste will collect in the gravel and foul up the tank. It'll also make water changes easier.
Don't be tempted by the products that claim to quick start the cycle (except for Tetra SafeStart) or products that lock the ammonia.

Be sure to check out the beginner stickies:
READ FIRST: Freshwater Beginner Important Topics

Good luck

agabr123

Since nitrate was zero when you tested, unfortunately your tank has not cycled. However, what kind of test kit did you use, or did you take it to the pet store?

I'll assume though, that your tank probably wasn't cycled, since it generally takes more than two weeks.

The best thing I can suggest is for you to do 50% daily water changes with Prime (a water conditioner that will detoxify ammonia, but not remove it, safe for the fish but still accessible to the biological filter), and keep an eye on the guppies. If there are lots of particles, buy a gravel vacuum. They are relatively inexpensive and REALLY helpful with water changes. Looks like this..
http://www.americanaquariumproducts....iumvacuum.html

brawlymcknuckles

Actually I have a gravel vacuum and did give it a thorough vacuum, unfortunately it just doesn't seem like it is coming close to cleaning it. As for the 50% water changes, should I start to cycle out the coppersafe and put a new filter in place?

Am I correct in assuming that removing my filter completely destroyed the cycle I initially started? I feel like it is an uphill battle trying to cycle my tank again and ward off ich and other illness. I am getting alot of incorrect info from my local pet store and I think that is my biggest point of frustration. (you are correct in that I have taken the water to them for nitrate/nitrite tests and they said everything was perfect...just before everything went wrong)

Lucy

Your post reminds me, a daughter's gift, 10g tank and guppies. Yep, that's how we started out. Sadly, we didn't seek infortmation until we lost all the guppies.
I'm glad you sought help sooner than us.

If you're using the strip test for ammonia you should be aware that they aren't the accurate. A better test kit is the API Master kit. It very reliable. It may seem pricey, but well worth it and less costly than the strips in the long run.

Edit: Some meds will destroy the bacteria. The reason they advised to take the carbon out is because the carbon will filter out the meds so they won't reach your fish.
The bacteria also grows on the decorations, gravel and more importantly, the sponge or bio-wheel and filter media.
If for some reason you have to battle ich again, you can slowly raise your temps to 83/84F leave it there for at least 2 weeks. Increase aerstion to make up for less oxygen in warmer waters and do a good gravel vac to pick up the ich spores.

brawlymcknuckles

For test kits unfortunately the store was out of the master kit. I do use the API ammonia test, and pH. The nitrate and nitrite kits will be in next week. I read bad things about the strip tests so I steered clear.


Also should mention, my filter just has a slot for a foam insert and a carbon insert. After I removed the carbon I rigged up an ammonia insert and put that in, in some sad attempt to right the high levels.

I am really strongly leaning towards putting in a new carbon and hoping that the salt and temp increase will get rid of the ich. I am really regretting having added the CopperSafe now

hkirchen

I too received incorrect information from my LFS. It is a learning experience that taught me to get information from at least three sources to weed out all of the bad.

When I faced the dilemma of removing filter cartridge and losing my cycle, I purchased a smaller filter, Penguin 100 which has a bio wheel in it. Now I have two filters (which also helps keep my tank clean of debris) one of which has a bio wheel that never comes out keeping my biological cycle in tact. I rotate which filter I change, and this way, I always have a used filter and the bio wheel.

Hope that helps!

brawlymcknuckles

I definitely like the idea of 2 filters, once I get this thing established I will consider that for sure!

So right now I am trying to decide...scrap the whole tank cleaning it and start fresh, putting the remaining fish in medicated fish bowl for a week or 2 while everything rights itself. Or just continue to fight with this tank until everything balances out. I guess my concern is that coppersafe will prevent my tank from establishing properly, and my fish won't live through the treatment.

Lucy

How much longer do you have with the coppersafe treatment and how are the remaining fish. Are they sick?

brawlymcknuckles

I have 25 days of the treatment left. (I am also treating the water 2 tbsp of aquarium salt and temp increase in the range of 82-84)

Both fish are still pretty active, but still show signs of ich. 1 guppy is noticeably worse than the other.

Lucy

Wow, I didn't realize coppersafe's treatment was so long.
I'd leave the fish in the tank, the heat will help get rid of the ich. It would be a good idea to increase aeration to make up for the lack of oxygen in the warmer water.
Bowls can't really be heated consistently.
Use Prime or Stress Coat+ to detox the ammonia.

brawlymcknuckles

Again thanks for all the information. I do have a question regarding stress coat. Is it the same as AquaPlus, this is what I currently use to remove chlorine? I noticed that stresscoat removes copper and other heavy metals, will this negate the treatment?

Don't you just love newbies (lol)

Lucy

We were all newbies at one point.

Stress Coat is a good water conditioner as is Aqua Plus but
Stress Coat+ or Prime will detox the ammonia.

dancerhas

Coppersafe will actually not harm your beneficial bacteria. Most filters use a "bag" type filter which is a mesh bag with activated carbon (looks like charcoal) inside it. In most cases you can tear open the top of the "bag" and dump the carbon out. Then you can put the mesh "bag" back in your filter and give the beneficial bacteria a place to live and grow. A tank will never (really) cycle without this peice of the puzzle...it will also catch all that debris you have floating around and clean up your water.

(I'm assuming you read the instructions for coppersafe and removed the bag entirely to prevent it from being removed by the carbon)

I found that article about the nitrogen cycle pretty confusing my first time. In a nutshell "cycling" means adding a source of ammonia to the tank (either rotting fish food, live fish, or pure ammonia out of a bottle) and allowing the beneficial bacteria to grow to a point where Ammonia, and Nitrite are completely removed.

You said your readings were "perfect" before you put fish in. But truly "perfect" readings (in regards to a properly cycled tank) are:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5 (this number can range from 5 to 20 safely)

This means all your ammonia and nitrite are being filtered out by those wonderful little bacteria, and all you have in your tank is nitrate.

brawlymcknuckles

With the lack of bacteria left in my filter (due to the recent removal of the carbon cartridge), should I hold off vacuuming the gravel for a while? My ammonia dropped to 0.25 by the time I got home today (1.0 this morning after a water change)

Both fish are still hanging in there, 1 gup is very spry, the other is sorta slow moving and still ich-ridden.

Also curious if the API ammonia test kits are accurate? I've read different things.

Again thanks to all that have responded!