Nate McFin

Hello,
As some of you who may have answered my questions in recent threads know, I am new to the hobby. I have been reading a ton ( 3 or more hours a day!) about how to keep my fish....cycling, acclimation, stocking, and care.
I have learned so much from all the obviously caring fish owners here.
In my town we have 4 places to buy fish and supplies: Walmart, Petco, and 2 independent LFS. I have gotten bad advice at all of the stores listed.
I was told by all 4 it was ok to add fish right away.(Luckily I didn't)
I was sold products that would do absolutely nothing for my tank (shame on me, I guess)
I am sickened by the number of fish dying in 3 of the 4 stores. One 20 gln tank had about 20 Angel fish in it. Of the 20 all but 4 were either dead or very very close. The ones that were still alive were obviously in a terrible amount of pain.
Fish dead on the filters with all the others gasping for air at the surface.
Stack upon stack of bettas in little plastic cups...are they ever fed
Several of them were dead so I doubt it. ICH, missing fins, and countless other atrocities are found in these stores.
As I said before I am VERY new to the hobby how can someone like me know more about fishkeeping than a LFS owner!?!?! It is absurd!!
I have several products I plan on purchasing (a QT , fish, plants, and other supplies) but I will NOT do business with these places. This weekend I will be driving 30 miles each way to the next town from me to see if I can find a store that I trust. I will continue to research my purchases BEFORE I buy but hopefully there will be one fish store owner who actually cares about the fish. I will remove myself from the hobby before I purchase from a store that mistreats animals.
When dogs are mistreated people there are angry mobs. Why is that fish have gotten to be something that is dumped in the toilet. Why is ok for carnivals to give out fish in cups. Why are there so many lies at fish stores?
I know these topics have been discussed here before but surely there must be a way to unite and make a difference. How about every single person here writing to one of the stores at once. How about the ASPCA
Surely we can do something about or at least boycott those who dont. Dont buy your next filter from the people degrading your hobby. (Not to mention the life of the fish!)
I am not usually the activist type but I feel compelled to try to do something for a creature trapped in water, surrounded by glass and unable to protect themselves or escape. Their life is in our hands!!!If anyone is interested in discussing plans to write at least one letter a month and send it to another store or organization....I would love to be involved. Maybe we can make a difference!
As The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy said...
"So long and thanks for all the fish"
-Nate-

Amanda

I know, it's terrible the conditions that fish can be kept in. Unfortunatly, fish have no rights as far as animal rights. So no local shelter or SPCA is able to do anything. The best thing to do is write the store, or write an editorial in your local newspaper. That always seems to get the attention of owners, when they see that they may lose some bussiness.

Nate McFin

I will be writing as well as calling the manages of the local stores. Sad to know they have no rights.
Here is a few petitions online some of you may be interested in. May not do any good but you never know!~
http://www.petitiononline.com/fishtank/petition.html

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/petition-sign.cgi?sickfish

An interesting read...
http://www.peta.org/MC/factsheet_display.asp?ID=30

Lucy

It's a sad situation, for sure. Write letters, call the owners/managers and let them know they lost your business.

Amanda

I signed the petitions, and yes, PETA is crazy.

josephdurnal

I noticed the same thing at the stores around here, but I don't let it get to me that much. I did find a great store about twenty minutes away, their tanks look great, their fish look even better. In about a minute I could tell that this is where I wanted to buy my fish from. Besides that they had kuhli loachs, the only place around that had them. My tank isn't ready for them yet, so, I didn't buy, plus, I'll want to get at least three, if not five, but they only had two.

You could look at it like this, find some fish in these stores that are healthy, and give them a good home before the LFS kills them. Not even the best store can keep every fish alive, and crowding conditions will vary depending how fish are selling. A genetically weak fish might be to stressed from shipping to survive, or worse, get a disease that it spreads to other fish in the shipment. I'd imagine, like any business, the LFS needs to order in sufficient bulk from suppliers on a regular basis in order to get a wholesale price. I don't know the LFS business at all, but it is a business, so, certain principles apply.


Joe

Dozey

I've signed the petition to support the cause.

I would be further interested in an email campaign where we the members of FishLore continue monthly email protests to the corporate franchises. I believe with enough pressure at the corporate level the corporations would demand higher standards from their franchises.

I feel even a form letter that members could copy and paste into a monthly email sign and send it could very well make a difference. And if we encourage other forums to join the campaign it could make a difference.

Fla_Larry

Im begining to think it must be a northern thing.
we have a PetSmart, A PetCo, and two independant LFS here.
along with 5 Walmart Supercenters all with in 30 miles, i have yet to walk into any of them to find any dead fish in the tanks ( i did walk into a PetSmart just in time for a fairly decent dog fight ... the little one won ).
or terrible disgusting conditions you all seem to always run into.
Latest place even has signs up telling perspective customers they WILL NOT sell you more than 2 fish at a time. Period ( thought that was a touch brusque ). This place did not even know what Eco Complete was, so he did the unimaginable..... he asked what it was WOW. I just asked if he could get me a price for 20lb bags, next day he told me the price ( 28.00 ea) and had four in stock if i wanted them. More pricy than M.O. yep. but he had my trust when he admitted he didnt know. Very cool IMHO. He may cost more, but he will get my business. Decent selection of fish as well.

Sorry to hear of ya'lls bad luck.

josephdurnal

I'm not sure how effective this would be. The numbers are much more important to a corporation than the words. Even small businesses have to put the bottom line as a high priority.

My thought would be to help educate consumers. Maybe a fish keepers meet and greet in your area, advertise it using a medium like craigs list, or even the free announcements in a local news paper, fliers, or a combination. I wouldn't try to alienate your LFS, as a flier there would be your best chance at reaching the people you want to reach. Get some knowledgeable folks together and hold a seminar for current or would be fish keepers, teach them the dos and don'ts.

You'd be surprised what you can accomplish when people interact.

Joe

Dozey

Most corporations do not like bad publicity especially if the media gets involved. I can think of one fast food corporation that certainly took notice and made changes when the movie “Super Size Me” hit the theaters.

Nate McFin

My wife and I will be working on our letter this weekend. I will post it when it is finished before we submit it. I would love to have the feedback of some of the more qualified folks on the board since I am new to the hobby.
I think IF enough people...on the same day...at the same time, sent these companies a letter. It would get noticed by not only the company but if there were enough response by the media as well.
I also thought what a great idea it would be for the forum to have business card downloads that we could print at home. I could keep a few in my wallet and when I overhear a clerk saying " Suuure you can have 6 catfish in your 10 gallon tank. I could hand them a card. I do agree education is the most important aspect. You have to change peoples idea that fish are merely disposable decoration. Heck the industry even uses the term "ornamental"
When was the last time you heard a dog refered to as "ornamental"?

Nate McFin

By the way Dozey, I applaud your LFS test. stuff like that gets noticed!

CHoffman

WOW..I'm really impressed. I know of 1 store that keeps their fish healthy but they are not very good when it comes to stocking, info, and what not..They are still just out to make a buck. You are very lucky to have suck wonderful stores close by to you. I travel 2 hours 1 way to get to the store I was talking about. Lucky dog you..

pinkfloydpuffer

I've already written to Walmart and Petco. I got a personal call from the local Walmart's manager. I'd focused mostly on the dead bettas in dirty cups, the high-brackish puffers sold as FW, and the dead fish left on the bottom of the tanks at Walmart. At Petco luckily they have no puffers so it was just the other two. I got an email back from them. And neither store have I bought any fish or supplies from since.
It's sickening to see fish treated that way, and even more sickening that there's so little we can do. But there's no reason not to try.

2lucky

It's crazy what they're allowed to do.

I went to a shop to buy all the cardinal tetras in the tank (there were 5), when the employee was netting them out he hit one on the head with the net on the side of the tank. When I pointed out the dead fish in the bag he said "i throw it in for free, if it lives, you get a free fish' and laughs it off.

these poor creatures are the most delicate and vulerable things... we need to be their voice!

TennThunder

I think places that sell Parrot Cichlids are bad also. You feel sorry for them, how they were conceived. Here they can't even shut their mouths and so have a hard time defending themselves.

I'd go to the district managers at Wal Mart and the other places, they might be sympathetic and get something done at your places, Nathan.

JESS01

Poor little guy. Can you believe that TERRIBLE man!!!

FL CommunityFans

I've been saying the same thing myself for months Larry. Maybe Florida folks just know how to keep their shops clean? Who knows. I definitely see more irritated posts from northern folks then I generally do folks from the south.

TennThunder

There's some bad stores, chain and independent, around Daytona so I disagree with the Florida Shops Are Good Theory.

TennThunder

Those places which sell those glofish aren't good either. The only thing that will cause a change with these places is for people to stop buying from them, but that won't happen.

Amanda

There's really nothing wrong with Glofish.
They breed in those colors now, it was just the original fish that were mutated.

TennThunder

Ok cool, because I read articles and they made it seem like every glofish was painted, which isn't cool. Glad it's like you say.

dancerhas

Perhaps it is a northern thing. Our Petsmart only has nice looking fish when they have just gotten a shipment. A week ago I went in and said to myself "I wouldn't buy any of these fish" then yesterday I was picking up a breeder net, and saw them unloading a shipment of fish...and today most of the fish looked nice. It's sad. Our mom and pop LFS has the most deplorable conditions imaginable....I won't shop there anymore after seeing painted mollies there.

Fortunately we found a very nice LFS called The Pet Store (creative huh?) that takes much better care of there fish, doesn't overstock, and has good prices. Hard to beat. They do house their betta's in cups, but they're double the size of everybody else's cups, and look like they're cleaned every day. I guess it's better than nothing.

The sad thing is how easy it would be to keep bettas in a cycled tank. Why not just keep them in breeder boxes? They don't have much swimming room, but at least they'd be healthy.

FL CommunityFans

Read and educate yourself about the power of the GLO.

The original reason for the glofish mutation was to make human life safer by detecting pollutants in waterways giving the people warning to find what was wrong.

It's genetic engineering, something I don't have an issue with for the most part.

That website will give you a ton of info, especially under the science tab at the top there.

Also, if you did not know, proceeds of the fish sale are sent back to the company and in to a fund to continue the study of this fish and its impact on science.


Ethics of the Glofish

Just to make sure it's understood, glofish are and never were painted. They had the fluorescent genes injected to them as embryos allowing them to grow in to the colored fish we see today. There are no 'dyes or paints' involved. In fact, the colors that you see are naturally occurring proteins taken from other marine animals.

Chrisson

I met what said to be the fish professional in one of my LFS and apparently the person has never heard of cycling a tank with pure ammonium. The person told me to use Nutrafin Cycle or just add fish right away. Luckily I researched a ton, but every store I go to they always say the same thing! I'm starting to wonder if the employees even have fish! I think they're getting false teaching from the employee training because they just want to sell these useless products. I also see dead fish in every store I went and they're always being poked or gnawed at by the other fish. Don't they check the tanks daily? Because the dead fishes are completley white so it must have been there for more then a day.

Fla_Larry

well about the only thing left to say about this thread is...


WOW !!! Just WOW

Nate McFin

I have found none of the local stores to know about fishless cycling either. 2 of the people I spoke with were owners of the store. The fish dont stand a chance with the misinformation being given.
I do have to say a HUGE thank you to all the members here who have spared many fish (and owners) a very sad ending.
I will be sending ALOT more people here to learn as I have decided that I will make more of a difference by going down to these stores as often as possible and spreading the word. I will do this until I am no longer welcome and then I will proceed with the letters I am working on.
I didn't make it over to the next town away to see if I could locate a better store as my wife was sick today. I am still waiting to cycle though so no rush...
Thanks for everyones thoughts and keep them coming!

TennThunder

Thanks Skippy for the article, I just read other ones and it doesn't paint such a rosy picture. I won't be buying them so all good, subject closed.

FL CommunityFans

No problem junior.

Nate McFin

lol...you guys crack me up. It reminds me of Dane Cooks "Chicken Sangwhich"
Anyway...off topic Chief.