CoreyCat

sure there are some obstacles to having fish. but after reading some of these threads its insane how some people dont care about taking care of something until they see it dying. all it takes is a lil research on how to own a fish tank and some knowledge about your fish. a lil studying can go a long way. i mean is there any kind of good that can come out of throwing any kind of diff species together and it work? its frustraiting to see how much people are close minded and selfish enough to the point where they cant even care enough to take 10min out of there day to do a simple water change, or search the internet about having a fish tank. sure we learn from our mistakes but after the loss of death your pobably going to be doin some reading anyways (hopefully) so why not do the research before you start throwin a bunch of fish in a tank and watch em suffer is all im saying...

(i could go on and on but ill stop for now.. lol)

thanx for reading
Corey

CHoffman

I don't think its pure evil that drive people not to do research. I got my first fish tank with NO knowledge at all..It doesn't mean I'm mean or selfish I just didn't know..I thought it would just "work"...I found out differently of course, after things went wrong, and made the changes and now I LOVE fish keeping...but these people ARE now doing research and that's GOOD news...Better late then never..I should have researched beforeI got the tank but I listend to the "fish guy" at the store and thought I was golden..I say congrads to anyone who is trying to do right by their fish by learning even if it's late. People make mistakes that's a fact...It's what they do to fix the mistake that matters.

Amanda

Most people do research before having a tank. Some people are thrown into the hobby. But you have to give them some credit for logging on to this forum and at least asking for some advice. Most of them are trying to do what's best for the fish. Yes, I'll agree - there are some people I've come across who shouldn't own any animal, and should probably be locked in a rubber room for their own safety. But in my expeirence, they are far & few between. Most are really trying to enjoy the hobby & provide a good home for their fish.

CoreyCat

most def agreed to what yall have said. theres a line between cruelty and a hobby.. to those who care enough to try are excluded from what i was saying

Red1313

Also alot of people just don't understand what is needed to take care for fish. It's not hard to understand a cat or dog, they're designed for the same environment that we are, all we have to do is feed and clean-up after them (and exercise). Fish are something that are completely different, they depend on us in a different way entirely. We literally control every accpect of their enviroment. And that's just a thing most people don't think of. However those that are serious about taking care of they're fish will learn. We all make mistakes along the way before we find the light.

Peterpiper

I can relate to what you are saying, but lets be fare and have a look at were the problem ( most times ) comes from.
Most people when they want to start in this hobby go to the LFS and listen to the people that work in the shop.. after all they are the experts ( yer right ).
They are told that they can do this and that.. when thing start to go wrong they sell them meds... and then people start looking at the internet... normaly its to late, but lets be fare about this, the LFS have a lot to answer, they give out advice and places like Fishlore pick up the pieces and try to help people start to enjoy this woderfull hobby.
How was your first tank and where did you go for your info?

Nick G

It depends how you define cruel. I keep 3 sets of breeding Platys soley for the purpose of feeding my Oscars. They're well cared for in very nice planted aquariums and live very happy lives. But the only reason I've got them is to provide more Platys that get eaten as soon as they're big enough. Is that cruel?

CoreyCat

alot of care comes with any pet you have.. whether its a cat, dog, reptile, bird or fish
you cant just throw a pomeranian in a backyard with a pitbull. a bearded dragon who thrives from the heat under a black light.. i think any animal we bring to our homes depends on us and fish should'nt be segregated to that of a dog just because it can lay on the couch with us. not going on a rant just saying what true fish lovers feel. not knocking on new fish owners either cause i dont consider myself an expert just trying to reach out to the ones who say they dont have time to take care of fish, or had fish put into there laps unexpectedly. so Hoorah! to those who care

CoreyCat

lol i guess oscars gotta eat.. right? i mean thats like asking a mouse lover if feeding a snake mice is cruel

Amanda

Hey, hey, hey.
Not liking the Pit Bull comment.

Drew 43920

It is good for the eater, bad for the eaten.

Nick G

Just maintaining the balance!

pinkfloydpuffer

"having fish in a tank 20g and under is cruel ...unless its a betta"

Um... isn't this a bit harsh? I can think of tons of fish right off the top of my head that do just fine in a 20g or less. I have 6 fish in my 10g and 3 in my 5g, am I cruel? (And not all of them are bettas)

Dozey

I too was thrown into this hobby. My wife did do her homework before purchasing a tank and fish. She went to the most logical place to do her research, the LFS of course. If she had wanted a car she would have gone to a dealership. A house, she would have spoken to a realtor. It only made sense that she turne to a LFS for her research on fish.

Regrettably that research LED to a 3 gallon aquarium, 2 cichlids and a catfish. This certainly was not a cruel or even an act of neglect on her part.

Bad advice can certainly put people in a situation they had not bargained for. If I was a working student and had to juggle school, work and homework it might be too much to care for fish on top of all this.

Fortunately I work from home and my clients never know that I’m speaking to them on the phone with my free hand in my tank.

We now have a 35 gallon tank and when we first got it I only had a small siphon and a bucket for water changes. I assure you, it took me a lot more then 10 minutes to complete a 50% water change.

pinkfloydpuffer

Don't worry, it's do-able. I work fulltime and go to school fulltime, and still have time to care for my 3 tanks (adding 4th as soon as I can get it set up).

CoreyCat

thanx PinkFloyd.. (which is one of the greatest bands of all time i might say.. along with Led Zepplin, Def Leppard and Tool.) for pointing out that anything is possible.
but yes i would have to say 5g is DEF cruel and 6 fish in a 10g i hope there neon/cardinal tetra.. putting fish in a small aquarium takes away the need for them to roam and to live a happy life. okay you might have live plants and Clean water.. but thats expected for them to live.. not be happy. i have a koi pond.. and your telling me they rather be in a tank?? idk about you but id rather be free or close to it than jail.. just saying.. (and no im not saying your tank is jail.. im saying the fish deserve as much freedom as possible and i think 20g and less does'nt quite do that.)

pinkfloydpuffer

Come see my fish and tell me if they're happy or not.

Nick G

Ok, so I keep a pair of Tiger Oscars in a 75gal tank. They have less room than 6 neons would in a 10gal. Am I being cruel?

pinkfloydpuffer

Also... koi ponds are named so for a reason. Koi can only be kept in the largest of aquaria, and ponds are most suited.

I did my research well before getting my fish. I consulted many members in this and other forums about whether or not they would have sufficient space to be happy, and this was confirmed.

No need to call me cruel for something that you don't know the circumstances of.

Amanda

Corey...on another post you reccommended to start a cycle with fish.
Do you not find that cruel?

CoreyCat

look i kno what its liked to be "locked up" or "cooped up" .. 75g tank is a Great tank to have and i bet its easy to daze at for hours.. depending on the size of your oscars

inuyasha_lover_21

Ok if you want to see cruel look up betta bowls, betta vases, goldfish bowls and the Ipond. Remember most people have listened to petco or petsmart.

Amanda

Which don't even allow the fish to move, and can never cycle.
Talk about cycling with fish.

pinkfloydpuffer

I assure you my fish are not 'cooped up'

Precisely.

CoreyCat

look i kno what its like to be "cooped up" so ofcourse im not gonna wanna do that to any body or animal i know... a 75g tank is a great tank to have and i bet its easy to gaze at for hours..your fortunate to have one. depending on the size of the oscars but from the way you wrote it am i the only one that thinks thats cruel??

CoreyCat

my comp is slow i thought the first one did'nt send.. lol

CoreyCat

Bettas live in puddles in the wild.. read about em
Goldfish.. cruel

pinkfloydpuffer

I think that you should read about them. The myth that bettas live in shallow puddles is told by storeworkers all over the world to unsuspecting customers who then think it's ok to put a betta in a bowl. Ask any bettalover here, they will tell you different. They live in rice paddies in the wild, which are relatively shallow when compared to a lake, but are also very wide and expansive. Not like a bowl.
Never any less than 2.5 gallons, fully cycled, heated, and filtered.

sirdarksol

CoreyCat, what we are talking about is ratio. 10g is likely fine for neons, while it wouldn't be good for, say, red-tailed sharks. A 75g is good for a couple of oscars, while it wouldn't be good for even a single pacu. Likewise, the size of a good tank for a single pacu would be too small for a young child to live in comfortably.

Personally, I think that PinkFloydPuffer is pushing it a bit for her bettas, but, in this case, I consider it less an issue of cruelty and more a risk of feisty bettas hopping dividers. She is aware of this risk, and is keeping an eye out for it. As she can't afford to get new tanks for her individual bettas, we can ask nothing more of her. Likewise, I have a single butterfly koi in a 29g tank right now, and am waiting to make space for a 200g tank for it. I make sure the tank has less than 10ppm nitrates all the time, and interact with the koi as much as I can, keeping him occupied. Nothing more can be asked of me in this matter for the time being.

Personally, I think that the statement in your signature is off-base and somewhat insensitive. Neons, killifish, shrimp, dwarf puffers, guppies, dwarf gourami, etc... can all fit well into tanks under 20g.

inuyasha_lover_21

I know bettas live in rice patty puddles. but would you like to live in cold water while people just look and leave or would you like a nice 2.5+ gal tank to swim around in warm water and get the best care?