JDMCD0525

WOW! I did a couple of hours research before I set up my tank, and thought I was good-to-go. So far things have been fine, but I'm only about two weeks in. By perusing some of the posts on this site I have found that I have made several mistakes. I'll tell you what I did and lay out my plan and I ask for any other advice anyone may have.

I just bought a new 26 gallon tank. I set it all up, filled it with water, added conditioner then let it run for a couple of days (about the only advice that I really remember reading and followed, although now I see that was bad advice as I should have gotten it through the nitrogen cycle). I then went to the pet store with my three daughters with the intent of letting them pick out 2 fish each. I would also pick 2 and, depending on the size, that would most likely put us somewhere below the 1 inch per gallon max (probably the only other advice that I read and followed).

The petstore worker recommended adding fish slowly, about 2 at a time. I asked "how about 4" and she said that should be fine as well. That day I bought 1 guppy, 1 molly, 1 tetra and 1 Pictus Catfish. The girl at the petstore said we should wait a few days before adding any more fish. We went back three days later and bought 1 guppy, 1 swordtail, 1 molly and a silver tip shark. About a week after the first purchase, the guppy from the first buy died.

I knew I had to start some cleaning soon and started doing some more research today on how to do it and what supplies are needed. Now I realize the error of my ways. The biggest ones being that I added too many fish too quickly and the second one is that I didn't allow my tank to cycle.

To summarize, 26g tank with 1 guppy, 2 mollies, 1 swordtail, 1 tetra and 2 catfish (silver tip and a pictus). My substrate is 50 lbs of swift stream pebbles. All seem to be doing well so far but it has been less than two weeks.

My plan:

1. Buy a water testing kit and start closely monitoring the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels.

2. Start changing about 3 gallons of water every other day to slow down the cycle. My only question is how do I dechlorinate it? I was going to let it sit for two days, buty I saw a post saying that wasn't enough. Will adding conditioner complete that?

3. Get a vacuum and start cleaning about half the rocks once a week.

4. Get a small, probably 5 gal tank, as a separate holding tank for fish that are looking sick. Also need to get the water through the cycle for that tank.

5. If I'm going to keep the two catfish, I will eventually need a much bigger tank. Good thing is that I was planning on buying another one soon.

6. When the tank is safe to add more fish, it sounds like I need to add at least 3 or 4 more tetras since they like to school.

The bottom line is it sounds like I really screwed this up, and I hope I can fix it in the next couple of weeks. The money lost would be unfortunate. My daughters' grief when they see that all of their fish had died would be much worse.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

JDMCD

Peterpiper

Hi and welcome to fishlore JDMCD,
Yep, your going to have some problems.
The tank has not cycled, and this means that all the ammonia will start to kill the fish.
Get ready for a lot of water changes.. a lot
You will need to change about 50% of the water now, so prep the water with the conditioner and add a air line to it and bring it to the same temp as the tank.
There is a product in the US that will help but I dont know the name, some one will help with this I am sure.
If you can, I would return as many fish to the shop as the more fish you have, the higher the bio load ( ammonia )

Lucy

Hi Welcome to Fish Lore

The mistakes you made are very common ones, so don't fret.
It sounds like you have a good plan laid out.

Just increase the amount of water changed out during a water change to 50% and use Prime as your water conditioner. This will detoxify the ammonia for 24 between water changes but still make it available to the beneficial bacteria.

When your adding new water to your tank you should try and get it as close to the tank water temp as you can and add conditioner to the new water before adding it to your tank.

Good luck, you're on the right track.
Oh we love pics so we hope you add some soon!

Edit: I looked up the silver tipped shark. It can grow up to 24"? If so, it would be a good idea to return him He'll grow too big for your tank. Also if the information I've read is correct, he is a brackish fish where the other fish in your tank are not.

I hope someone will correct this information if it's wrong.

JDMCD0525

Thanks for all of the advice. I would like to try and push through this without returning the fish. I did let my daughters pick them out, and in the very short time we've had them they've grown very attached. I think they would be very upset if they have to return them. It sounds like if I pay close attention and monitor the cycle I should be able to keep most if not all of the fish without killing them.

I bought an API "Master test kit" and some Prime water conditioner. I tested the water, then changed out about 1/3 of it out (pH = 8.0, Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrite < .25 PPM and Nitrate = 0). I thought I'd change out a bit more in the morning. I thought I saw advice on a 50% water change that said to do 25% at a time. Besides that the fish were going nuts and I thought that maybe the cleaning and water change had stressed them a bit. I figured I'd let them settle a bit, then change out some more in the morning. I let the water filter for about 20 minutes or so then tested again (pH 7.8, Ammonia was about 2-3ppm, Nitrite and Nitrate was 0 (I actually didn't test nitrate again assuming none would magically appear)).

I also decided to warm the water just a bit. It has been sitting in the ambient air of the room and hovering around 72-73F. Based on the range of the fish I have, it looked like 75F was a bit closer to intersecting the recommended temps of all 5 types. 6 of the 7 fish are very active, the 7th, a black molly seems very calm. I don't know if I'd call him lethargic, he just hangs out while the other 6 are scampering about the tank. There are no other physical problems I can see with any of the fish.

How fast will the silver tipped shark grow? I figured I could keep him in this tank until he got a bit bigger, then transfer to the new tank I was planning on getting (55+). I figured he'd last in that for a while until I couldn't handle him any more or got a huge tank for him or gave him away to someone who had a big enough tank. As far as the brackish, it sounded like it didn't really matter until he started getting a lot larger, so I could keep him here for now then make my new tank more of a brackish one when I get it.

I've compared all of the Temps and pHs recommended for all of the species I own. It looks like if I keep the temp from 75-80 I will satisfy all of them. How important is pH? A pH of 7.5 covers all of them except the pictus cat. The recommended pH for him is 5.8-6.8. If I keep it a little below 7.5 should it be OK for the Pictus?

Thanks again for all of the help.

JD

Dozey

Your tank is really in the very early stages of cycling. You have to keep up daily 50% water changes and more Prime then less is really important right now. Prime won’t get rid of your ammonia but will help your fishies big time.

Darn the fish stores, they are guilty of fraud IMO. I’m sorry you and your children have to go through this but you can get through it. Keep up the great effort you are taking on and you will be blessed with loving pets.

Peterpiper

Hi JD,
With PH, it is more important to keep it stable, than to have it at a set value.
With the ammount of water changes, there is no beed to check for nitrates.
Good that the test is showing nitrites, that means the bacteria have started.
Are you running an air pump in the tank?
Will leave the shark for other to comment.
Looks like you have the cycle under control

JDMCD0525

Tomorrow the kids will be here to help with the water change. It will be good to get them involved in the care.

Only thing I forgot to buy at the store today was the air pump. I'll try to stop in for it tomorrow. Temp now is stable at 75-76.

Red1313

ok well I did a bit of google on you're shark, (I recommend doing your own as well, I'm not an expert ), it sounds as though ideally you should have him in his own brackish tank however is says that as juvi's they can be kept in freshwater, as they age you'll need to add more and more salt. Also you're going to need a bigger tank... Acorrding to the fish that you have listed, the Molly's, Guppies and sword tails I believe will be alright with a bit of salt water (the Molly's could go brackish with the shark with proper climitization) however the tetra would love to have a few friends and aren't as salt tolerant as the livebearers. Also you may want to watch out was the shark is preditory and some of his smaller tankmates may end up as luch one day. Here a a few sites, Mongobay being the one that I'd recomend most, they're one of the best I've found for fish requirements.
http://fish.mongabay.com/ariidae.htm#Arius%20seemani
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_jordani.php
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fres...h/sharkcat.php

Lucy

I was just reading the profile of the Pictus. Your guppy and tetra might be in danger of being lunch.

Interesting fish, though.

Shawnie

pictus are fine in 7.5 as most have said, a stable ph is better than one that changes...my pictus did eat guppies so careful on those crazy fish as lucy said....they NEVER stop moving ...day or night LOL ...and I agree with the 50% water changes until the cycle is done...after a few days of doing this, you will see your fish calm down and actually expect it ...great adventure for you and your children for sure!! goodluck!

JDMCD0525

I find the comment on the pictus two posts above as kind of funny in a not so funny way. While I was at the pet store the first time my kids and I were looking at fish and comparing them to the compatability chart. I kind of liked the Pictus and he wasn't on the chart. I asked the fish store employee if the catfish would get along. She said, and I quote "yeah they'll be fine, they're community fish, they get along with anything. Closest thing on the chart is the Cory cat" Fraud you say?!?!?!

Anyway, installed the air pump today. Of course with kids, I got the treasure chest that opens and closes. I don't think this provides quite the air I'm looking for. I think I'm going to look for a T-connector and let a little more air out somewhere else in the tank.

Of course the other problem is that I have my tank pretty close to my entertainment system. What does that cause. I now have one wall socket with my entire Bose stereo system, my Wii, my Cable box, and from the fish tank the light, pump, heater and air pump. Actually I would like to put the air pump there so I don't have an extension cord reaching accross the room, but that's what I'm doing right now. Looks like one of those fire hazard safety briefings you get at work (not quite that bad yet, but I definitely need to do something soon).

A few hours after changing the water, (probably about 30-40%) I did another series of water tests. My ammonia was at 1 ppm, nitrite was 0 and nitrate was 5 mg/L. I'm trying to understand the cycle as I've read it in a couple of places, and I thought this was odd since I really didn't have much of a nitrite reading at all yesterday, and had 0 on the nitrate. Is this normal?

JD

Shawnie

yeps it is...its coming along nicely!! and as you can tell from your pet store experience, never trust them LOL ...they are out to make the mighty buck

all of my tanks look like the hazard areas also ...I have powerstrips everywhere!

Red1313

in my room I only have two outlets, off of them I have to run 6 tanks, printer, laptop, 2 lamps, various cahrgers ect. I've got extension cords and power bars everywhere. I'll have to do a bit of feeling around in a fwe weeks to try and figure that out better.

JDMCD0525

OK, wanted to get a warm fuzzy that I was doing everything right (besides not returning the fish).

With my 26 gallon tank I am changing the water daily. About a 30% change. As I understand it this helps the fish out by diluting the ammonia and nitrites, but slows down the cycling process. Is that correct? I'm adding Prime to the new water as well before I put it in the new tank.

Of my 7 fish, 6 are still going strong. I lost the silvertip shark the other day. I almost took him out and put him by himself in the other tank as he was not looking that good. I figured I really didn't know if the other tank would help him as the water hasn't cycled in that tank either so I'd give him another day or so. The next morning when I woke up, he was floating in the tank.

I bought a second smaller tank as a quarantine tank. I was going to get a 5 gallon, but the 10 was cheaper!? I don't have any fish in that tank, am keeping it at about 80 degrees and add a couple flakes of food every 12 hours. I also put about 3 gallons of water from the other tank in when I first filled it. I don't change the water out much in this one if at all, figuring that would also speed up the cycling process. Is there anything else I can do with this tank to get it cycled just in case I need to move another one of the fish to it before the big tank cycles.

It seems that the two tanks are at about the same spot. They both are showing little if any ammonia and between .5 and 1.0 on the Nitrites. The Nitrates are showing between 5 and 10. I guess the other big question I have is should I take the readings before or after the water changes, or does it really make any difference? The 6 remaining fish look healthy and it seems to me like I'm doing the right things for them.

Any advice is appreciated.

thanks,

JD

jdhef

JD, you are correct, partial water changes slow the cycle, but protect the fish. When adding the Prime, if you're not doing it already, it would probably be a good idea to put in enough to treat all 29 gallons. That way you are sure all ammonia in you tank is detoxed.

The only faster way to cycle the 10 gallon tank would be to add SafeStart then keep feeding the tank to keep the cycle going, or add seeded filter media/gravel from an established tank.

You should test water before the water change, since changing out water will lower your values, if you test after.

fishlover78

welcome to fishlore! I wanted to let you know that your on the right track, a ton of members here started out like you, listening to the money mongrels at the pet store, If at all possible if you are going to petco or petsmart or any other chain store IMO I would try to find a nice little local pet/fish shop. what is the name of the pet store/shop you are going to now? There are always reviews online and I wanted to read over some for you. good luck! -fishlover78

JDMCD0525

I'll start looking for a good local fish store. The first place I described was Petco. I also have a Petsmart nearby that I have gone to a couple of times. I've even visited a Petland. Not really impressed with any of them. I live in Tucson. Every time I go in to a store like this now I ask a couple of basic questions that I have already learned the answer to here, just to see what the reaction from the employee is. With a little over a month with a tank I almost feel like I know more than most of them.

I've been adding enough Prime with the water changes to cover the entire tank. I kind of read between the lines when it said something to the effect of "will protect the fish from the ammonia for 24 hours". Don't remember where I saw that, but because of it I have been adding more than required for just the changed out water. How toxic is the chlorine and chloramine? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if I can cut out a step. Can I add the Prime first, then just fill the tank? I have been filling a bucket, mixing in the prime, filling the tank, then repeating. Adding the prime first then adding the water would make it just that much easier. Just to make sure, the prime neutralizes the ammonia, but it is still in there right? I haven't seen any readings of any significant ammonia since about three weeks ago or so (shortly after I started doing the water changes and adding the prime).

I have also been very meticulous about getting the water temp the same. What are we talking about here? Within 1 degree? 2? Right on?

The next thing I'm learning is patience. I have had this tank since November 25th. I haven't seen much of a change in the Nitrites in about 2 weeks. At least the fish seem to be doing fine. Speaking of time. I have read that I should change the filter media once a month. It has obviously been longer than that now. I have also read that removing the filter media can start a mini-cycle or remove too many of the beneficial bacteria. What is more important, changing the filter or preserving the cycle.

The fish all look healthy right now which is the most important thing. The kids are also having a good time with them. They have named them all and are still excited over the feedings. I've even had them help me with reading the chemicals and they enjoy that as well. I'll get some pictures on here soon.

Thanks again for all of the great advice.

JD

Nick G

Sounds like things are coming along well! Personally, I wouldn't change the filter media until you're fully cycled. What sort of filter is it? You may be able to change some of the filter media while leaving some of the original in, depending on the type of filter.

jdhef

You could add the Prime to your tank first, then immediately start adding the water. And it is a good idea to add enough to treat the entire tank, not just the volume of new water. (Once you have finished cycling, you can just treat the volume of new water.)

Chlorine etc, is toxic to fish, but just as importantly, it will kill your beneficial bacteria and you'll need to cycle once again.

Don't change your filter cartridge until it is totally falling apart. That is where the vast majority of you beneficial bacteria is. But if your cartridge also contains carbon, you will want to remove the carbon, since after about a month it become saturated with impurities and can start leaching them back into the water.

The nitrite phase of the cycle took me longer than the ammonia phase. But you're getting close!

JDMCD0525

Filter is an Aqueon 30. The filter media doesn't look too bad. The directions for the new filter cartridges says to rinse to get rid of carbon dust, so yes, it sounds like it has carbon. The directions also say to wait until the water is going through the bypass and that isn't happening yet. I'll hold off until the cycle is complete and the water is going through the bypass and around the filter.

So I was reading in another post about quarantine. Should you really quarantine any new fish for 2 to 3 weeks. I was looking forward to getting a couple of new fish when the tank cycled but I just read a couple of posts talking about the quarantine. I thought putting the fish bag in the water for about an hour was all that was needed. If it is necessary, I guess it makes sense to make sure you aren't introducing disease to your newly cycled tank and fish. Pretty large investment in time and a little bit of money as well.

thanks again,

JD

Dozey

I am one of those people waiting three weeks to add fish to my tank. And yes it is recommend that you quarantine fish for 3 agonizing weeks. As painful as the wait has been I guess in the long run it sure beats infecting or infesting your main tank. Also, many of the meds you may have to use to clear up a disease or parasite will crash the cycle in the tank.

It will become even more important as you stock your tank. It would be awful to bring home one or two fish and infect your current stock with something. As hard as this is read some of the threads where people did not quarantine a new fish.

jdhef

I don't have a quarantine tank, and I just added a Dwarf Gouami to my tank a couple of weeks ago. I gotta tell you I was concerned that he would introduce something into my established, harmonious tank. So if possible, it really is better to have a quarantine tank.

agabr123

Honestly, I would add the prime bucket by bucket, as you've been doing. You're in danger of killing the bacteria on your filter media if, say for example, the water level is below where the filter can access it, and the only water that is hitting the media is water that has not been primed. Prime will detoxify the ammonia in your tank for 24 hours, but also make it accessible to the bacteria on your filter media, so right now you can add enough for your whole tank since your readings are still high.

Also, I would read up more on the nitrogen cycle so you can get a better idea of where your tank actually is. There are lots of good links on this site that you can find that would be extremely helpful to you in going through basic steps for beginner fishkeepers.

And finally, I would suggest thoroughly researching fish that you want before buying. The one inch per gallon rule is helpful, but that means one inch per gallon of the adult size of the fish, not the size that you buy it. And, just because you have a 29 gallon tank doesn't mean that it can house a 14+ inch fish as per that rule, they will need something much bigger to be comfortable and happy. It's great that you want your kids to be involved in choosing fish, but it would definitely be in your best interest to perhaps make a list of fish that would all be compatible and have enough space in your tank and let them choose from that list. Oh, and I would never get this information from a pet store, but do the research online. Clearly you are willing to put in the effort and plan to have your fish for a long time, I would hate for this to happen to you again. Online, you can cross-reference sources and verify information. I have known information given at pet stores that do not specialize in fish to be 100% wrong. Good Luck.

JDMCD0525

I was nervous for a couple of days about your post Alex. I didn't read your post right away and for one day I added the prime first then added the water. It appeared that I was getting a very slight ammonia reading the next day. It was showing below .25 ppm, but definitely wasn't a clear pure yellow. Now, about a week later it appears that I'm finally through the cycle. I find it hard to believe because my nitrite readings have had no appreciable change since the 21st of December. It has been reading a strong .5 since then with no changes from day to day. Suddenly today it is reading 0. I took a second reading just to make sure. It is a very clear, very definintive 0.

I read up a little on quarantine tanks today. It sounded a lot simpler than what I was doing, but I guess my technique will work as well. I started up the quarantine tank about three weeks ago with a bit of water from the main tank, but pretty much just set it up as a smaller version of a full up tank. I'm going to wait for it to finish its cycle, then will look into possibly getting a couple more fish. Not too many and obviously after a little bit more research.

Thanks again for everyones' help.

JD