rjwwl1

I really messed up this time. This morning I had 4 Head & Tail light Tetras, 1 Red Tail Shark and 1 Pleco. I checked my Water last night and had high Ammonia between 1-2ppm - so I did a water change of about 20% (10 gallons) and vacuumed and stirred the gravel and dummy me I went ahead and changed the filter because I wasn't sure how often and when. I tested the water again this morning and the ammonia is down to 1ppm. Some time this afternoon the Rail Tail Shark committed suicide by jumping out of the tank as I found him on the carpet when I came in. He/she must have jumped from between the glass and the tank heater or filter. This evening I checked water again and it was still 1ppm so I decided to do another water change. I've been doing my changes by the 5 gallon bucket...I removed 10 gallons and add back 5 at a time. I noticed while I was adding the 2nd 5 gallons that all my Tetras were swimming upside down...I finished adding my water and then sat there and watched in astonishment as they all died. About 30-45 minutes later so do the pleco. I am totally dumb founded as to what I could have done wrong. My current setup as follows:

40 gallon Hexagon
PH: 8.0-8.2 been that way since day 1
Ammonia: 1-2ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Water Temperature: 75-78F
I use API tap water conditioner (Dechlorinate) and Topfin bacteria supplement to treat the water before adding to the tank

To answer some of the other potential questions, This setup was approximately 7-8 weeks old - I have had a close relative in the hospital the past few weeks and so I have went 3 weeks instead of my normal 2 week between water changes and I had not tested the water since my last water change.

I wish to move forward and may never know what it was that I did wrong, but am hoping for some suggestions on what I should do next to insure that my next fish are not subjected to this and hopefully insure that I don't do it again.

clinton1621

It sounds like with how quick they died that you forgot to dechlor the water, chlorine kills fish within minutes.... or a second guess would be that the water you added was more than a few degrees different from your tank water and sent the fish into shock

rjwwl1

I keep running it over and over in my mind. I definitely added the dechlorinater each time. The things that I keep thinking about are: Maybe the water I added was to cold, maybe I picked up the wrong bottle and it was 1 of the water test bottles instead of the dechlorinater (I'm sure this is not it, but there is that possibilty)....maybe there is something else in my tap water that I'm unaware of.

clinton1621

Hmm... I wouldnt think so, most water dechlor additives remove all those, including chloramine (another form of chlorine).... The only other possibilty I can think would be that tap water doesnt always have a very high dissolved oxygen level (sometimes its actually none and it will have CO2 built up instead) and given that you changed a very large percent of the water then there wasnt enough oxygen for the fish to "breathe"

Alasse

The ammonia would be my guess. If it has ammonia then its still cycling. Due to you having to go away (which happens to us all) The fish were prolly stressed from having to stay in the ammonia, the larger water changes wile lowering the ammonia, stressed them even more by changing something they were used to.

I don't have to worry about neutralizers thankfully here, but are you sure you put in sufficient? Chlorine and Chloramine burn your fish (similar to ammonia) and can kill them pretty quickly

I dont heat my water prior to adding to any of my tanks, i add cold straight from the tap. Never lost a fish to shock yet, in fact the change tends to set of breeding frenzies *L* So that would be low down on my list of causes.

In the old place i lived, i could never do water changes on Sundays, thats when the water used to be treated, you could smell the chemicals in the water and it killed fish no worries. Your water treaters may have done the same. Have you tried testing the water straight from the tap?

Darlene

I'm sorry you lost all your fish. Was it cycled before you went so long without water changes? If it wasn't cycled, then going that long without water changes to help with the ammonia and nitrites that could have been the problem. I think its weird that you don't have any nitrates. I would wait until all your readings are good before adding more fish, ammonia and nitrites 0 and nitrates 20ppm or under. You will need to still feed your tank, or use pure ammonia to feed the bacteria that you do have.

I'm sure some one on here can help more Good luck.

clinton1621

I have to disagree with the ammonia level lowering stressing them out.... Ammonia is highly toxic and yes they were already stressed out but lowering the ammonia level will only help the fish not hurt them, try standing in a cloud of smoke and then suddenly moving to clean air... you are going to feel 10 times better not worse

Also with adding cold water.... in low amounts (20% or so water change) this probably wouldnt affect anything as the temp wouldnt fluctuate too much, however if you change more than that and the temp drops or raises more than 2 or 3 degress rapidly then you are MOST DEFINITELY risking sending the fish into shock and killing them

pepetj

I'm sorry you lost your fish. Your readings suggest you lost your cycle, so your tank is cycling again. Complete the fishless cycle and move on.

In the end it seems to be the play of multiple factors: Ammonia spike, probable presence of chlorine/chloramines, death of beneficial bacteria, temperature shock... and your mind stating the unlikely confussion of poisoning with liquid reagent.

The truth, for me, is: you were taking care of your fish to the best of your abilities.. Grieve your loss, and move on.

IMO: Changing filter media all at once, while doing a deep substrate vacumm probably left you without enough bacteria to handle the bio-load. Ammonia probably spiked over 1.0ppm.

Did you let the vial rest for 20 minutes after adding the last reagent (that's the time in Tetra Laborett for Ammonia, not sure about API or other brands) in order to get an accurate reading? otherwise your reading of 1.0ppm could be a false negative (for 6+ppm).

The shark died because it jumped out of the water, too bad, accidents happen, it's pure chance he/she found the way through such a narrow gap.

Hope your relative gets better. Don't be hard on yourself.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

Alasse

We are all entitiled to our opinion I stand by my original post

I do upto 50% water changes with cold water and have yet to see any signs of stress, or have ever lost a fish due to doing this. As stated in my previous post, I HAVE seen breeding activity after water changes, and if they are doing that, they certainly arent stressed *LOL*

I'm in far more danger of poisoning them by drawing hot water from copper or unknown pipes. Pipes running HOT can influence or add nasty things to the water running thorugh them.

Blub

I think that, the best step now is to do a fishless cycle, and try and forget about the fish passing. Remember, always double check you have added everything in case someday you do forget when doing a water change!

Doing a water change with colder water can mimic the rainy season - which entices breeding. Whilst doing one with ice cold water is a bad idea, perhaps down to 18C is alright. Dechlorinators should get rid of the copper and that in hot water.

Never change filter media - just rinse it in a bucket of tank water every week with the water change.

I believe that the combination of changing parameters (Even toxic ones) is stressful, and possibly not adding enough dechlorinator killed them.

rjwwl1

Thank you everyone for your kind words.

In running this all thru my mind, I can't figure out what it was that I could have done wrong...I'm still shocked...I'm wondering if I should start from scratch and take the tank completly down and thorough rinse everthing then put it back together, maybe add a piece of drift wood to help with the high PH and then complete a fishless cycle?

Blub

Continue the cycle from where you are fishless. I'd post something in the aquarium stocking suggestions board to compose a nice stock plan as well!

Lucy

I'm really sorry for the loss of all your fish, please don't be hard on yourself.
I'd go with the ammonia weakening and stressing them and if cold water was added during the water could definatly shock them.

I agree with Hatchet, continue cycling from where you are now.

As for changing your filter, most of the beneficial bacteria develops in your filter so you only need to rinse the media in used tap water when it gets really dirty and replace it when it's in shreds. I don't even remember the last time I replaced my filter media.
You might want to keep extra filter sponges in your tank so when you have to replace it, you have one already seeded.

Good luck.

joy613

Some water including city water has ammonia in it at times. If you have problems getting the ammonia down check the water that is coming out of the tap just incase the city is having a problem. Sometimes also they use buffers and it can effect the quality of water.

Barbrella

No fish could survive that ammonia level. It's toxic even in minute quantities At high levels it kills very quickly and the high pH makes it even more toxic.

Never change it until you see it's falling apart. When it needs changing, make sure you put the new one in the filter for a while before taking out the old one.
One of the best water conditioners to use during changes is Prime. It removes chlorine and ammonia and detoxifies nitrites.

I'm sorry you lost all your fish.

Ghostfish

I would definitely say the ammonia level is the culprit. After they were in ammonia for that long of period, they were likely just on borrowed time. Perhaps something in the water change rushed the issue, but at that point I doubt they had a chance anyway. Sorry about what happened, but with those types of circumstances it is understandable. Good luck on getting your tank going again.

Devon

So sorry you lost all your fish. That's really hard, and it's easy to obsess and beat yourself up over it when they go belly up, especially right in front of your eyes like that. I had a similar experience several months ago and it just broke my heart.
Moving on... I agree with everyone here, regardless of the other factors (shock, temp., etc,) your fish were without a doubt suffering most from the ammonia poisoning. A zero nitrAte reading always means that you're not cycled. NitrAte begins to show up as a result of the beneficial bacteria eating up that icky ammonia in your water, to put it very simply. Fish suffering from ammonia poisoning can die just from looking at them wrong.
My suggestion is to continue your cycle and keep a close eye on your tap water. Maybe test from the tap every day for 7 days and see if you can tell when the water is best -- then do water changes on that day once you've got fish. As Alasse mentioned, maybe they are treating the water on certain days, and if you can anticipate that you can avoid some serious stress on your fish. Don't empty your tank and sterilize everything unless you have had a major epidemic (irodiovirus, etc.) -- your situation doesn't warrant it, it will just slow down your new cycle.
Sounds like you're back to square one with your nitrogen cycle-- at least it gives you time to decide how to stock that tank now.

Good luck!

Alasse

You really should test you water coming from your tap also. It's very handy to know what the base parameters are.

The town water at my place i refuse to use on my pot plants, i've seen what it does to them, i most certainly am not putting it in my tanks *L* The town water goes through the hot water system, and adds copper and gawd only knows what to it. What comes out would be poison to my fish and invertebrates, not to mention my aquarium plants. The water that comes from my kitchen cold water tap is tankwater/rainwater, i have no fear of using it, nor do i have to add chemicals to it. And for me the less chemicals added the safer/better. The water i add is straight from the tap, in winter the pipes freeze, so the water is quite cold. Still havent seen any probs from it.

But hey what works for me may not work for someone else. And what works for someone else may not work for me.