oXo

Hi

I've been trying to cycle my 56gal tank for about 3 weeks now (fishless) using ammonia. I brought the ammonia levels up to +/- 5 and I continued to add that amount for about a week. I then saw some Nitrite readings start to show up and I thought all is well. I even see some Nitrate readings, but then for the last week or so, everything seemed to have come to a screeching halt.

I then noticed that my pH reading was 6.0 which I found out is bad for the bacteria. I then bought pH UP and added that to get a +/- 7.2 pH reading (using the API liquid Master Test kit).

The strangest thing is that after about +/- 6 hours, the pH reading is down to 6.4 again. I added another batch of pH UP to get it to 7.2 ... but after 6 hours the reading is down to 6.4 again.

I have only 1 java fern and 1 amazon sword in the tank.

Current readings are:
Ammonia: 8+ (I stopped adding ammonia)
Nitrite: 1.0 (been like this for 3 days - might be a small increase)
Nitrate: 5.0 (been like this for 3-4 days)

Tap water measures no Nitrite and no Nitrates and no Ammonia. Tap water pH is 7.2.

Any ideas why the pH keeps on falling?

I have added some Flourish Excel for the plants but that is about it. I haven't used any Amo-lock etc. I also added some Plant Gro (Iron enriched) and only added Tetra Aqua-safe to the tap water.

Any help welcome

Thanks!
oXo

pepetj

Hi oXo: Nitrates at 1.0ppm are a spike. It has taken some time, but you are at the second stage of fihsless-cycle. Theoretically now you need to add half the amount of ammonia solution you were using for as long as this spike remains. Since you are overdosing ammonia, this has slower your cycle, try cutting down the amount you were using to 2/3, wait for 30 minutes, measure; then 12 hours after you added ammonia, measure again. By the second day -it may be that same day- you should be getting ammonia either at 4 or 3ppm. Keep adding that amount if 3ppm, a bit less if 4ppm.
It may seem forever, but you will notice that at some point the nitrites spike begins to fade down, to less than 1.0, to 0.5, then to 0.25, and at that point you will have a nitrate spike, which you only need to detect, and wait,still adding the theoretically half (truly around 2/3 of what you were adding) until nitrites readings are zero; you do a water change and you're ready to go.
If this is your third day of nitrites at 1.0ppm, then once you stop overdosing ammonia, your tank should be cycled within a week time, maybe a bit more. To help you cycling your next tank (you know there's a next one, don't you?) add extra sponge filter media in your running filter.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

oXo

Hi Pepetj

Thanks for the reply .. I feel a bit better now I'll keep it going.

Any idea what would make the pH drop like that ? Plant ?

Thanks
oXo

Ghostfish

If anything, the plant should raise your pH by using up CO2 in the water. If you are using CO2 injection, that usually drops my pH down from almost 8 down to about 7. I use flourish in my planted tank as well but have not noticed and pH drops due to it. If you have driftwood for decoration that will lower your pH. It sounds like you have soft water causing pH swings.

pepetj

It may be that your water is too soft (say a GH less than 4dH), with extremely low levels of carbonate hardness (KH less than 2dH), and unless you are injecting CO2, its easy to control without using expensive chemicals.

You could solve that by adding some substrate rich in carbonates and other minerals, like crushed corals (not live rock!) or marine sand, sold at the saltwater section of the LFS. If you have a leaching driftwood, that would lower the KH, and bring down pH.

Keep your tank well aereated, leave the lights on for 12 hours at least and bring the temp to near 29C -above 30C dissolved Oxygen drops dangerously.

Don't worry too much about the way plants look, they should make it fine through the fishless cycle, although you may need to clean their leaves gently when you go for the water change.

Good Luck

Pepe
Santo Domingo

oXo

I went to the LFS today to get a KH and GH test kit, but could only find the strips. I know they aren't the best but that was all I could find.

I tested the tap water and it had the following readings:
GH +/- 60 ppm
KH +/- 40 ppm

Aquarium pH was back at 6.4 (liquid test kit)

Now from what I understand that is super soft ?? I went and got some crushed coral from the LFS and I added about 2-3 tablesppons full into a stocking and added that to my Rena filter.

I added my daily dose of ammonia which brought the pH up to 7.6.

I guess the good thing is that I'm now seeing a slight drop in ammonia levels and also a drop in Nitrites. The thing is that it seems my Nitrates are keeping stable at 7ppm. Now I don't know if this is as a result of the Bio-Zorb that is in the Rena filter .. maybe it is absorbing some of the Nitrates. Also the plants might be keeping that low too.

It seems that the cycle is going at least and hopefully the crushed coral will stabilize the pH.

oXo

Alessa

I had the same exact situation like two weeks ago when I was trying to cycle my 5 gallon hex.

another problem is that when you keep ammonia and nitrites above 5 (or around five) there is too much food and the bacteria try to reproduce all at once, depleting oxygen and coming to a total stop.

what I did was a HUGE water change and brought down the ammonia and nitrites to .50/1pmm. two days after I did that, my tank cycled.

in my oppinion, do not let the ammonia and nitrite above 2. you'll see things will get fixed a couple days after you do that.

oXo

So something in my tank must be draining my pH ... I added about a handfull of crushed coral to my Rena Xp3 filter about 3 days ago. Now I know that takes long to start buffering.

Currently my tank is close to finishing it's cycle, Ammonia is dropping slowly (still adding every day) ... Nitrites is just about 0 and my Nitrates is still hovering over 5-10.

I did check my tap water (with strips unfortunately) and it kH is 40 .. same as the tank..

The pH drops within hours of UPing it, back to +/- 6.2 Clearly I cannot add fish when the pH flux like this.

So .. here are pictures of my tank .. anything in there of concern (Yea yea ... I know it's all ocean-y with the ship and all .. not really freshwater like ... but that is what the kids wanted )

The two plants in the front are real .. the ones in the back are fake.

Any suggestions welcome.

oXo

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jdhef

Is that a piece of driftwood in your tank. Driftwood will lower your Ph, so that could possibly be your problem.

BTW, I like your kids taste in decor!

oXo

lol ... I'll tell them, thanks!

Well .. I thought drift wood would be "real wood", but I'm a bit confused all about that. This is one of those fake drift wood thingies one buy at petsmart there were about 5 that all look the same ...

oXo

jdhef

Okay, I've seen them at Petsmart, They are not real wood, so that should not be the cause of your Ph lowering. My tap water is 7 but for some reason it goes up to 7.6-7.8 after being in my tank. I was going crazy trying to figured out why. I finally decided to just live with it. Fish supposedly will adapt to various Ph levels so long as they stay consistent.

pepetj

Hi Oxo and all:
Sorry I took some time to come back at you. The problem lies in your tap water, but I wish I had that problem to be honest with you, since I'm into South American Cichlids.

It shouldn't take long to get to a stable point, as long as you go from less to more. Remember that it is easier to elevate pH than to take it down.

An expert here should give us a hand, as far as I know, you add the crushed corals and within 24 hours you measure for GH and KH; wait another 24 hours and measure again. Make a decision comparing those measures as if you would need more crushed coral added and how much. Aim at a stable zone of soft water (GH of 5dH, KH of 3dH). If for whatever reason, the crushed corals added in the filter don't work, consider spreading a layer in the substrate of your tank, but be patient, you are doing a great responsible fishless cycle.

I wish you could get a liquid reagent test kit. Tetra has really easy to use tests for GH and KH, that would give you accurate readings in increments of 0.5dH. If you can't don't worry, you might do it with strip test.

Conversion of ppm into dH: divide ppm values by 17.9. GH 60ppm =3.35; KH 40ppm =2.23Rounding those values, you had a GH of 3dH and a KH of 2dH. Indeed very soft water with a carbonate hardness that, in opinions I have read, should be able to prevent a pH crash (although others say KH at 3dH should be the minimun safe point).

Your tank looks awsome, that wrecked ship looks really nice in there. Didn't the Europeans sailed in them deep into the Amazon River, or the Orinoco River? So I guess it is still freshwater! I guess all you need is a rear wallpaper to make your fish feel secure (not exposed all over). In your case it was a good idea to get a fake driftwood.

Pepe
Santo Domingo