digital9x

Hello there,

I'm glad I found this website and forum. I decided, after 12 years, to set up my aquarium again. I have a 29 gallon fresh water setup. I found this website just after I added my rocks, decorations, filters, and water. Before adding any fish, I wanted to research the "safe" way to get started again.
Thus, comes in this website. It appears my approach was a recommended one as far as the nitrate cycles go (initial tank setup) using the rocks. My tank has been up and running for 3 days now. Today, after reading the info about nitrates, ph, and the other chemistry involved, I went out and purchased a 5-in-1 tester. I also purchased PH tablets and a bottle of stress coat, plus some live aquarium plant bulbs (Aponogeton) (which are in the tank now).
Okay, here are my results via the color chart provided with the test strip.

Nitrate = 0
Nitrite = 0
Total Hardness = 75 (Is this the ammonia level?)
Total Alkalinity = 180
PH = 8.4

I see, via your website's info, had I added any fish, they would soon die due to the PH level and Alkalinity. Am I correct?

I added 3 table spoons of Stress Coat to my tank after I performed the test. (1 tablespoon per 10 gallons) The bottle stated to add it when either disease is obvious or one is setting up a new tank. The "Correct PH" Tank Buddies (tablets) I purchased, stated if a tank has a high acid level to add conditioner first. Now that I have added the conditioner, how long do I need to wait before adding the PH leveling tablets? After performing the test, I started to feed the tank. I haven't added any fish yet.

BTW, I'm 38 years of age, and never thought my 11th grade Chemistry class would be of use. Well, according to your information on this website, I was surely wrong. Thanks for providing such in depth info for us to utilize.

Christopher.

jdhef

Actually you have a high alkyline level. A ph of 7 is nuetral, below 7 acidic, above 7 alkyline.

8.4 is pretty high, if your tap water is not that high it could be from the rocks. They say if you pour some vinager on the rocks and they fizz, than the rocks are raising your ph.

You really need to be checking your ammonia levels also. Initially as you feed the tank, the ammonia level will spike. Then the bacteria that digests ammonia will form and your ammonia levels will drop to zero and your nitite levels will rise (the by product of the ammonia eating bacteria).

Eventually, bacteria will form to digest the nitrites and leave behind Nitrates as a by product. Once (after spiking) the ammonia and nitite levels are zero and you start showing low nitrate levels you are fully cycled and ready to finally add fish.

COBettaCouple

Welcome to Fishlore.

I recommend the API master freshwater testing kit. Unfortunately, the results from those test strips are often inaccurate.

For pH, the most important thing is keeping it stable - so pH altering tablets and chemicals tend to cause more problems than they solve. If your pH tests that high with the API test kit, you can put a piece of mopani driftwood in to naturally bring it down in a more stable way.

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm - Check the fishless cycling methods listed here.

digital9x

First of all, thank you all for the responses. As far as the driftwood suggestion goes, I take it that it will soak up the acid?

Just got off work (2:25 PM EST). I went to work this morning at 4:30. Prior to leaving, I added the 3 required PH tablets. I had also done that before having read your comment that those tablets can cause more harm than good. Well, here I am now staring at a cloudy tank, which was crystal clear before I left this morning. Did those tablets cause the cloudiness to appear? What would make for a good solution to clear my tank back up again?

I still have yet to add any fish. Later this afternoon, I'm heading out to get an ammonia tester. BTW, the PH tablets packet states they also help reduce ammonia. I'm going to get one of those "live" ammonia testers that's good for 4-6 weeks and uses replaceable test strips. My temperature in the tank is still constant (in the green), 75 degrees Fahrenheit.

I've fed my tank twice so far. This makes day 4 for my tank.

Having just performed another 5-in-1 test, here are my results, one of which has changed since my first reading.

Nitrate = 0
Nitrite = 0
Hardness = 75
Alkalinity = 180
PH = 7.8 (was previously 8.4)

Thanks for your help,

Christopher (Digital9x)

jdhef

If you are going to spend money on a test kit. I would spend it on an API Master Test Kit. It is more accurate than strips.

Driftwood cuases your tank to become more acidic. (ph less than 7 acidic, ph above 7 alkyline). It causes your ph to lower by releasing tannic acid from the wood into the water. The down side to this is that it makes your water a little tea colored.

The ph tables may not have been the cause of the cloudiness. It could be a bacterial bloom. When cycling my tank, the water clouded up when the ammonia levels started rising (I assume this was a bloom of the bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrites). The water cleared up a few days later. Then it got cloudy when the nitrites started to rise. (I assume the bacteria that converts nitites to nitrates). When I came home from work Thursday, my tank was clear and I couldn't wait to get the test kit out, because I just knew it finally finished cycling. (Which it did)

digital9x

Ahh, a bacteria bloom - this is a good thing I see, part of the cycle. Had I added fish prior to this white cloudiness, I would have probably given up and thought I added them too soon. As I said before, no fish are in the tank. So, it's possible for a bacteria bloom to occur with no fish in the tank? If so, I take it the process is coming from the fish flakes decomposing.

I'm familiar with the API name brand. That's the stress coat conditioner brand I added to my tank on day 3. (Bottle said to add it to new tank setups.) I'm heading to Carousel pets to get that tester you mentioned. I would go to Petsmart, but the closest one is in Knoxville (45 minutes away). However, I-40 is under construction (closed) a few exits prior to Petsmart - and it's a cluster maze getting around in Knoxville with every road being a 1-way street.

I've noticed a 1 inch drop in my water level due to evaporation. During the cycle, should I continue to not do partial water changes?

jdhef

There is no need to do partial water changes, since you don't have any fish in the tank. Doing water changes would only slow down the cycling process.

The reason behind doing partial water changes when cycling with fish, is to dilute the ammonia & nitites since they are toxic to the fish.

digital9x

Okay,

I'm on Day 5 now. I went yesterday and purchased "Stress Zyme +", which is made by API. It's a Dual Action Biological Filtration Booster, and contains live bacteria.

My tank is still cloudy (white). The rep at Carousel Pets basically told me everything I already read on this website and forum when I went to that store yesterday. So, having read the information prior to visiting that store, and hearing him say what he did, I didn't feel like someone was speaking Greek to me. I was able to follow along.

He stated the cloud is the sign that my tank is creating its ecosystem, and the cloud is a good sign. However, he stated the cloud could stay for as short as 2 days and up to 3 weeks (that long??). He also said it depends on my filter system.

Okay, that leads me to my next question. The filter system I have is the one that came with my tank back in the day when I purchased it. According to the image below, do I need to upgrade it? Also, I'm noticing a great deal of sud-like bubbles at the top of my tank and inside of the filtering unit. I do have an air-bubble tube that runs horizontally along the back side of my tank. Would someone take a look at the 2 images below, and tell me if these bubbles are normal considering my setup.

(these are clickable thumbnails that will show you the full size of the images).
Filter Unit:
(BTW: the white stuff you'll see on the pipe and the unit housing is something I can't seem to get off, but doesn't reside where the water is contained. It's from my last use of the tank way back in the day.)


My Tank:
(NOTE: I'm referring to the bubbles shown at the top of the water surface).


Here are my current recordings.

Day 5: (still feeding my tank every 12 hours)
Nitrate = 20 (was previously 0)
Nitrite = 0
Hardness = 75
Alkalinity = 120 (was previously 180)
PH = 7.8
Ammonia = 0.25 (used the API NH3/NH4 test kit)

Thanks for your time and help,

Christopher.

Butterfly

The stresscoat has aloe in it and if stresszyme+ has aloe in it it will cause the bubbles. that makes a good bit of aloe in the water. Not harmful but will make many bubbles. Yes the cloud may stay awhile and is nothing to worry about. The filter looks fine( the white crusty stuff is mineral deposits from the water not a problem). At this point patience and testing is all you can do Good Luck!
Carol

digital9x

Thank you Carol for responding. You are correct. The Stress Zyme Plus does have Aloe in it.

The rep at the store told me I could come back today and purchase fish for my tank. He said that since he knew I was purchasing the Stress Zyme Plus, and told him I was going on Day 5. He told me after adding the Stress Zyme would put my tank in proper shape to start adding fish. Should I still wait it out a few days before adding fish?

Christopher.

Butterfly

I wouldn't add any fish until the ammonia is at 0, Nitrites at 0 then add fish just a few at a time. The bacteria will have to grow to accomodate the additional ammonia your fish will contribute so you don't want to overwhelm it and have an ammonia spike.
I used Stresscoat when I first started out and had bubbles around the edges most of the time. Unless you just want to use this product Prime will do just as well and I haven't noticed any bubbles with it.
Carol

pepetj

Hi Chris. I relate to you since I came back to fishkeeping after a long time out (20yrs hiatus). I was fortunate to find this site before purchasing anything. I felt overwhelmed by the nitrogen cycle and all the talk in here. But I took the time to listen (well, to read) and learn from guys that certainly knew better than me. I came to the conclusion that all I thought I knew was mostly outdated, and quite innacurate.

The 5-in-1 test strip you have is probably from Tetra. That's a GOOD SCREENING test strip, keep it you will use it later on. You need to get reagents (liquid) test. Guys here use API Master Test Kit. I use Tetra Laborett (ph, Ammonia, nitrite, GH, KH, and using a table, CO2), for nitrates I use Marine Enterprises Nitrate Test Kit.

Be patient. DO NOT ADD FISH. You are doing great so far!

Test your tap water parameters (better if you let the water sit overnight), and write them down. Test your tank water, write them down. Look for major incongruencies (most water parameters are "independent" but they do correlate).

Rule out if something like rocks or driftwood is raising your ph (due to GH, KH). If you need to lower your ph, consider using filtration through peat (otherwise it's a risky business, no matter what the guys at the store tell you).

It pays off to be patient. It gave me time to research fishes' profiles, and ultimately, got me MTS, and hopefully I wish you will too.

Consider using a solution of pure ammnonia (without surfactants) and add Xdrops until you read 5ppm (with the liquid test kit). Just keep adding Xdrops daily and measure water parameters, and write them down. Once you register a rise in nitrites, ammonia will likely drop to 2 or 3ppm within 12 hours, likely zero in 24 hours. Now you add half Xdrops daily. Wait until the nitrite spike fades down (it might seem like it's forever, but it will come down). At that point (when nitrites go down) you will register readings of nitrates. Change the water but DO NOT clean the filter media (you might rinse it with the water you get out of your tank, but don't overdo it). Put in treated tap water (now is the time for Stress-zyme and Stress-coat, in the bucket). And add your fish (aclimate them of course).

It took me 11 days to cycle 10gal. 13 days to cycle 5.5gal. 12 days to cycle 29gal.
Number of dead guys: one apple snail was dead on arrival (doesn't count). The oldest apple snail died of natural causes (age) a few days ago. One female guppy didn't survive "labor" within 24 hours of arrival (they get really stressed in the bag).

Congratulations for going fishless-cycling!

Pepe
Old-newby
Santo Domingo

digital9x

I have good news. First of all, Pepe, thanks for the reply my friend (and to all of you others). I didn't go and purchase any fish yesterday.

This morning, before going to work (at 5 AM), my tank was still cloudy. Though, throughout the day yesterday, I could tell the cloud was slowly going away. Now, it's 4 PM, and my tank has no cloud - HECK YEAH!!! The white, Stephen King Mist is gone!!!

I've continued to feed my tank every 12 hours. I even get lost in time watching the bubbles coming from the air tube in the back. This is almost like being a kid again, waiting on Santa to bring me toys - hahaha. Or more like doing that first school science fair project contest.

Here are my current stats:
Nitrate = 0
Nitrite = 0
Water Hardness (GH) = 75
Alkalinity (KH) = 120
PH = 7.8
Ammonia = 0.25

Christopher.

jdhef

Chris

It will most likely cloud back up when the Nitite portion of the cycle starts. But once again the cloudiness will go away and your cycle will probably be compleated!