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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Newbie
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need help starting new fish tank
i have a few questions i hope some people could answer for me because i never knew having fish required all this
alright so i read the articles on how to cycle and they say to use either pure ammonia, dead fish, or other tank water but i don't have any of these nor do i want to buy a fish and kill it (my girlfriend would cry and then kill me). i cant find pure ammonia any where (pet smart, wal-mart, home depot, Lowes) they all have surfcants (sp).
1) so i was wondering how i would get it to start cycling without any of the above. can i use any raw meat from like the deli at wal-mart? i got a chuck of hamburger in the freezer and was wondering if i could use that or would that be the wrong kind of bacteria?
1b) if i can use hamburger what would the process be because i have only seen the full process for using just ammonia?
2) since my tank is a little weird how should i set it up to start cycling? should i only fill up the filter part and start the bacteria growing there or fill the whole tank up and then start it? should i have all the gravel and decorations in it first or does it not matter?
3) do you think i will need a filter on the back of the tank also or will the bacteria on the bio balls be enough?
SETUP:
95 gal tank
section of the tank used just for filtering
using bio-balls after the water passes through some floss to remove the big stuff.
and a pump after the bio balls to push water back into the tank.
Please see pics for more details.
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Master
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hey kev..not sure about the filter questions, thats a really cool different kind of tank...but on the other questions, a piece of shrimp from your grocery store will due in the filled tank..or you could fill up tank and put a bit of fishfood every 12 hours or so...and the other resort for immediate cycleing, is bio spira...heres a link for it... http://www.aquariumplants.com/Bio_Spira_s/47.htm ...within 24 hours or so bio cycles the tank..otherwise you have to wait a few weeks..I would set everything up...as bacteria forms on your filter media, as well as gravel and decorations...goodluck and im sure others will help with your filter questions  |
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Keeper
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Hi Kevin,
Good to see your going to cycle fishless!
chuck of hamburger meat? er.. dont know, well it would decay and produce ammonia, but what else?.
I did a post on how to make DIY Ammonia if you want to go this way..
DIY Ammonia for cycling your tank
With a tank this size, (95g) if you were to use the dead fish / shrimp method, you would need 8-10 shrimp 2" long each. If using fish flesh then use the same volume as the shrimps ( it will not be smelling too nice )
IMO Change the bio balls for ceramic noodles. The bio balls bounce around with the flow and the sound they can make will drive you nuts
You could cycle with out the filter, but the more area for the bacteria the better IMO |
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Newbie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterpiper
Hi Kevin,
Good to see your going to cycle fishless!
chuck of hamburger meat? er.. dont know, well it would decay and produce ammonia, but what else?.
I did a post on how to make DIY Ammonia if you want to go this way..
DIY Ammonia for cycling your tank
With a tank this size, (95g) if you were to use the dead fish / shrimp method, you would need 8-10 shrimp 2" long each. If using fish flesh then use the same volume as the shrimps ( it will not be smelling too nice )
IMO Change the bio balls for ceramic noodles. The bio balls bounce around with the flow and the sound they can make will drive you nuts
You could cycle with out the filter, but the more area for the bacteria the better IMO |
well im working with what i got because im on a bugget so if the balls drive me nuts ill switch them but we'll see.
if i went the shrimp route what would the steps be? put 10x 2" shrimps from the deli in and wait for them to decompose and then wait for the ammonia and nitrite levels to hit 0 well having some nitrate?
Where would you get Sal ammoniac powder and how much would i need?
Edit did a few calculations and i would need 540ml of sal/water mix for my 95 gal tank. would i add a little each day or 540ml every few days. i am so lost on how to work this. also peter instant message me if you dont mind helping me out.
Last edited by Kevin353; April 13th, 2008 at 09:39 PM.
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Keeper
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If you remove the bio balls once the tank was cycled and replace them you would have removed the bacteria that was on the balls, so you would need to re cycle the tank..
With the shrimp, I would start with 6 then add 4 once you see the ammonia start to drop.
The reason for this, is the bacteria that changes the ammonia to nitrite establishes quicker than the bacteria that changes the nitrite to nitrate, by adding the 2nd lot of shrimp you will maintain the ammonia in the tank while the 2nd lot of bacteria is being established
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Mentor
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ACES hardware has been reported to carry pure ammonia.
Raw fish and shrimp really rot and stink... 
If you can find the ammonia you will be much happier.
As for the other questions. You should set this tank up, just like you want it, and WHERE you want it when you have fish, to cycle, so the last thing you have to do is to do a 75% water change and then add fish. I don't know about the filter you have, I'm not familiar with that, maybe someone with SW would recognize it.
Shawnie also has a very good view. IF you can get Bio-spira you can add the fish, and the bio-spira at the same time and then let everything mature....no water changes for 2 weeks, and your tank will be cycled. Many people here have done this and it works just fine. The bio-spira for a tank your size will be about $35.00 + shipping. If your LFS has it, this is the only product that stores might have that will cycle your tank. Most of the time you have to order it. |
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Newbie
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man maybe im just not getting this or something. i am feeling pretty slow right now. im gonna try and write things down and tell me what you think.
1) add 6 shrimp to tank full of water (all setup as best as i can get it)
2) check ammonia level (how long after adding shrimp? what should the level be about?)
3) wait for ammonia level to drop from step 2's level (how much of a drop? any kind of drop? 1ppm?)
4) Add 4 more shrimp
5) check ammonia level (how long after adding shrimp? what should the level be about?)
6) wait for ammonia and nitrite levels to hit 0 well having a nitrate level (how high should the nitrate level be? off the chart?)
7) change 90% of the water
8) the tank is now cycled and i should add fish
are those the right steps because i am really confused? should i add more shrimp after adding 4 more to build more bacteria up or will that be enough?
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Keeper
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richard7467 , has posted a fantastic artical on using ammonia to cycle
here's the link
2 Ammonia methods of cycling your fishless tank
Everyone on this site is more than willing to help others. it truely is a wonderfull site and I am more than happy to help, so if you have a question please ask |
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Newbie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susitna-flower
ACES hardware has been reported to carry pure ammonia.
Raw fish and shrimp really rot and stink...
If you can find the ammonia you will be much happier.
As for the other questions. You should set this tank up, just like you want it, and WHERE you want it when you have fish, to cycle, so the last thing you have to do is to do a 75% water change and then add fish. I don't know about the filter you have, I'm not familiar with that, maybe someone with SW would recognize it.
Shawnie also has a very good view. IF you can get Bio-spira you can add the fish, and the bio-spira at the same time and then let everything mature....no water changes for 2 weeks, and your tank will be cycled. Many people here have done this and it works just fine. The bio-spira for a tank your size will be about $35.00 + shipping. If your LFS has it, this is the only product that stores might have that will cycle your tank. Most of the time you have to order it. |
the Bio-spira i have read about is hard to find and if you order it online shipping gets really expensive. i think my best bet would be shrimp but i am keeping my eye out for pure ammonia |
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Keeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin353
man maybe im just not getting this or something. i am feeling pretty slow right now. im gonna try and write things down and tell me what you think.
1) add 6 shrimp to tank full of water (all setup as best as i can get it)
Yes, add the shrimp to the tank that is full of water, the tank should have the filter running and the heater set to 80f. With this size tank run 2 air stones
2) check ammonia level (how long after adding shrimp? what should the level be about?)
The ammonia will start to rise around day 4-5
3) wait for ammonia level to drop from step 2's level (how much of a drop? any kind of drop? 1ppm?)
The ammonia will rise, you need to test for ammonia every day from day 4. When you see the level of ammonia start to drop you add the 4 shrimp
4) Add 4 more shrimp
5) check ammonia level (how long after adding shrimp? what should the level be about?)
The ammonia and nitrite will start to drop at some point, once the ammonia and nitrite are at 0 the tank is cycled
6) wait for ammonia and nitrite levels to hit 0 well having a nitrate level (how high should the nitrate level be? off the chart?)
Yes, and yes the nitrates will be high at the end of the cycle process
7) change 90% of the water
Yes
8) the tank is now cycled and i should add fish
Yes the fish should be added with in 24hrs of the water change as the bacteria will start to die off as it has no food ( ammonia )
are those the right steps because i am really confused? should i add more shrimp after adding 4 more to build more bacteria up or will that be enough?
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NO need to add more after the 2nd lot
Pete
Last edited by Peterpiper; April 13th, 2008 at 10:27 PM.
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Keeper
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2 Mini or 1 strip would do for now.
When you are looking for the ammonia, you will not find 100% pure ammonia, you will find ammonia that is mixed with water, the ammonia content will be between 3-18% with no added stuff.
Let us know how you go!
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April 13th, 2008
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Fish Keeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin353
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One would work fine, just check that the air pump can supply enough air for this beast! |
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April 14th, 2008
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Fish Addict
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i would humbly suggest the shrimp have the shells off. when the shells deteriorate, it's been my experience that they cause water cloudiness.
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April 15th, 2008
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Fish Newbie
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i have found some ammonia finally at ace hardware thank you whoever said that. i almost got the basic parts all done. will post pics on progress in a few days.
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