Blub

sirdarksol

Hatchet: Algone is not a bio filter. It's a supplement to get rid of algae. Probably a suspension of some sort of copper.

Phosphate pad is only necessary if you have a lot of phosphates in your water supply. (which you seem to have figured out)
Charcoal, not necessary by most people's opinions around here, though others swear by it. It makes an excellent biological media (anything with surface area can be colonized), but as the charcoal breaks down, it releases stuff back into the water, so most of the folks around here figure it's better to use ceramic or foam bio-media.
What you absolutely need in your filter is at least one foam pad that picks up the bigger particles as well as provides a place for bacteria to colonize. Anything beyond that is personal choice.

Once you've cleared the Algone out of your tank, my suggestion would be to put the carbon filter cartridge into the filter without the carbon. If you get creative, you can add extra biological/mechanical filtration media. The foam stuff is pretty cheap at pet stores, and you can use it fill in space that would have been filled by carbon.

Susitna's advice on algae is excellent.
Don't change the BioBalls. They're probably the least likely thing to be causing problems, but removing them will undo any progress the tank has made in the cycle, causing more cloudiness.
I have had issues with the 50/50 lights (the ones that are half blue/half white) in my freshwater tanks. They seem to have killed off my plants. I think that they have some intensity that freshwater inhabitants can't deal with, though I have no idea what this might be.

SereneReyn

um, well i disagree. i don't think that you should use some algone thing that you suspect killed your fish. tho i do agree that after things are stable, a biological filter is the way to go. carbon, especially with an ammonia blend, CAN help to stabilize your water until your bacterial colony is established - tho as i said, i would NOT use carbon long term.

the cloudiness that you'd previously experienced could have been something as minor as a bacterial bloom - harmless, and in fact beneficial. cloudiness is the last thing i would worry about... things that should worry you are: water readings that are not where they should be, and fish behavior. cloudiness often times clears up on its own.

can i ask what sorts of decorations you have? something as small as a few shells can cause your water to cloud. or rocks with calcium, etc...

as far as lighting, the blue light is just not the best spectrum, from what i understand, for freshwater fish. it's unlikely to hurt anything, but if you happen to see a bulb intended for tropical freshwater fish, it might be a good idea to pick it up.

i understand what your husband had said about wanting all the cloudiness gone, but it will dissipate even with smaller water changes. whatever it is, it's likely not going to kill your fish... but turning their whole world upsidedown can. if you must change the water conditions (Ph, for example) the best way to do so is SLOWLY.

SereneReyn

sorry, posted at the same time... yeah with plants the blue lights are bad...

i pretty much agree with all that sir said.

sirdarksol

Hah! I finally ninja'd someone one a post. (I almost never get to do that)

I agree with pretty much everything Serene said.

SereneReyn

lol, grats on the ninja, sir!

Blub

susitna-flower

Figuring out tank chemistry can be very frustrating....We are just here to help you do this, and hopefully before any more fish die.

Lights don't seem to be a problem. The rule on lights and Algae is that if you keep lights on more than 10 hours a day, it will encourage algae growth. I feel the blue is just as likely to do this as the white....So if you could turn all lights off for 4 or 5 hours during the day when the fish are not feeding and maybe you can still see them it should help cut algae growth....The question of if your "plants" will be able to use the blue light is only viable if you have plants, and as far as I can see you haven't said you even have real plants....

We are asking just exactly what you have in the tank so we can give good advice.....

Keeping a chart for your test results will help you track exactly what happens in your tank.

You can test PH, but don't worry about it. When people first start with their tanks this seems to be something that is really worrisome, because everything you read on fish gives the optimal ph range they live at.....Usually this is not a problem with fish unless you get into breeding....Even Discus, one of the most picky about ph, will live and thrive under a variety of ph levels as long as the water is CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN.....No ammonia, nitrites, and low Nitrates.....So it boils down to this. Don't try to change the ph. and don't worry about it right now.

In your last test you are not saying what ammonia tested at.

What water tests do you use? Most here recommend the API Master Test Kit, for freshwater. If you can do your own tests every day, and chart the results, until your tank is through the cycle it will help.

When your tank is SAFE for fish you will have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 5 or above on Nitrate.

Anything that happens between now and then, could include spikes of ammonia or nitrite which will kill fish, so you have to do partial water changes every day of approx. 25%, you can add Prime (a treatment to detoxify ammonia and nitrite), OR you can add bio-spira (a bacterial culture to help speed the growth of bacteria that will convert ammonia to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate) DON'T worry any more about the cloudiness....it is as said before, a Bacterial Bloom.....You want this to happen and it will clear itself in a week or more.....Until the bacteria has a chance to grow you won't have a cycled tank.

On your chart have a spot for the date, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and the other tests are your choice if you include them every time.

Weekly water changes of 25-50%, and gravel vacuuming 1/2 the tank every week is normal tank maintenance for most of us.

I rinse my filter material at the time I do water changes, in discarded tank water....I do not use carbon, unless I have medicated and then only for 24 hours to remove the medications after treatment. I DO NOT CHANGE FILTER MEDIA, unless it is in rags.

Believe me we have all been JUST where you are today....about to pull your hair out, but once you have gotten through the cycle it will all settle down and you will enjoy your tank.

SereneReyn

amazingly enough, carbon can be used in conjunction with floss or sponge material in many types of filters temporarily.

treehugr

[quote=susitna-flower;327615] Figuring out tank chemistry can be very frustrating....We are just here to help you do this, and hopefully before any more fish die.

>> Thank you all for your help. My Gourami is still alive, so far, but still not eating which worries me. I am hoping he's just having a "spell" and will snap out of it any day now.

>> I have listed my answers below each question...

Lights don't seem to be a problem. The rule on lights and Algae is that if you keep lights on more than 10 hours a day, it will encourage algae growth. I feel the blue is just as likely to do this as the white....So if you could turn all lights off for 4 or 5 hours during the day when the fish are not feeding and maybe you can still see them it should help cut algae growth....The question of if your "plants" will be able to use the blue light is only viable if you have plants, and as far as I can see you haven't said you even have real plants....

>>No, we don't have any live plants - have heard that's a lot of work and basically a hobby in itself. We have 3-4 fake plants, a piece of driftwood and a small-medium piece of coral (from LFS, not from beach). We used to also have a larger rock that had holes in it (for the fish to hide/swim through) but we took it out last weekend because a) a fish had died in it (ew), b) the algae loved it, c) we wanted to give the fish more swim space.

>>We moved the tank last week so I don't have to have the lights on all day to see the fish, the ambient (not direct) sunlight is enough to see through the tank (well, when it was clear, anyway). So, I have only been putting the white light to feed. When things clear up (hopefully), I may turn on the blue lights for a couple of hours at night so we can enjoy the fish. If you all think the blue lights aren't good for the freshwater fish, I will just use the white.

Keeping a chart for your test results will help you track exactly what happens in your tank.

>> We do keep a log - we're currently using the one that came with the API master test kit but that's about to be full so I plan to make my own log and keep them in the notebook binder I started when we got the tank. I do write down dates and notes of all the things we do - unless my husband adds something and doesn't tell me (he's not as organized/anal as me).

You can test PH, but don't worry about it. When people first start with their tanks this seems to be something that is really worrisome, because everything you read on fish gives the optimal ph range they live at.....Usually this is not a problem with fish unless you get into breeding....Even Discus, one of the most picky about ph, will live and thrive under a variety of ph levels as long as the water is CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN.....No ammonia, nitrites, and low Nitrates.....So it boils down to this. Don't try to change the ph. and don't worry about it right now.

>> My husband has added stabilizer to adjust the PH -- again, because the LFS said it was a little high (I don't agree - as I said, from the research I did on our fish the PH wouldn't have been a problem). I will let him know not to add anymore.

In your last test you are not saying what ammonia tested at.

>> Unfortunately my husband didn't write down the last two sets of tests because he said they were all good (I could kick him). The ammonia level tester chip that's in the tank shows it's at a safe level. Though, I wonder how often we have to replace those things - every month or every 3 months.

What water tests do you use? Most here recommend the API Master Test Kit, for freshwater. If you can do your own tests every day, and chart the results, until your tank is through the cycle it will help.

>> Yes, we have the API Master Test Kit for freshwater. Looks like the LFS made at least ONE good suggestion

Anything that happens between now and then, could include spikes of ammonia or nitrite which will kill fish, so you have to do partial water changes every day of approx. 25%, you can add Prime (a treatment to detoxify ammonia and nitrite), OR you can add bio-spira (a bacterial culture to help speed the growth of bacteria that will convert ammonia to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate) DON'T worry any more about the cloudiness....it is as said before, a Bacterial Bloom.....You want this to happen and it will clear itself in a week or more.....Until the bacteria has a chance to grow you won't have a cycled tank.

>>He said he added Prime when we did the water change last weekend. Yesterday he added the liquid bacteria stuff (Cycle), so hopefully we're on our way back to being cycled. I will trust all of your combined experience and not worry about the cloudiness - if you say it doesn't hurt the fish then I'm okay. We were just worried it was "choking" them because it seemed like the equivalent to "bad air pollution" to us. Plus it just kept getting more and more cloudy - we waited a couple of weeks for it to get better and it never did. But I will make sure we wait it out this time. Obviously the full water changes didn't help and actually did harm so we won't be doing that again.


Weekly water changes of 25-50%, and gravel vacuuming 1/2 the tank every week is normal tank maintenance for most of us.

>> Do you also remove the plants and rocks to clean them? Or do you just have a pleco or otto do that job for you?

I rinse my filter material at the time I do water changes, in discarded tank water....I do not use carbon, unless I have medicated and then only for 24 hours to remove the medications after treatment. I DO NOT CHANGE FILTER MEDIA, unless it is in rags.

>> We have a 14 gallon Biocube...

http://www.oceanicsystems.com/products/biocube.php

...which has a specific filter (which does have charcoal in it) - not sure if they offer one without charcoal - I'll have to check into it. It also has another sponge in the Wet/dry section, plus the bio balls. Since this tank has specific parts we don't really have the option of making our own stuff.

SereneReyn

hey, just wanted to say that even on some of the 'premade' cartridges (with carbon) and whatnot you can often times just cut a small slit or something and dump out the carbon (maybe even replace it with a gravel like bio-media? eheim's substrat?), or get some cut to fit foam and cut it however it would fit in there ... but if you opt to change that portion, i would do it at a time when you're not cleaning the bioballs and sponge.

treehugr

It's funny you say that because we actually did jimmy-rig an old filter when we were using the Algone and phosphate pad (you're not supposed to have carbon in there too). We ripped off the filter and dumped out the carbon - then cut some of the phosphate pad and stuck it into the slots.

I just wonder why the filters that the company makes specifically for the biocube have carbon. Why is carbon so bad?

Blub

treehugr

I just checked the Oceanic Website - I only see the one filter option so I'm assuming that's all they make for that model...

Replaceable two-stage filter cartridge: BioCube Aquariums include a sophisticated filtration system with a two-stage disposable cartridge that provides both mechanical and chemical filtration for clear, debris-free water. The poly-woven pe-filter traps free-floating materials and waste while the activated carbon removes odors and discoloration.

So, I guess I'll have to take one of those, rip off/trash both the filter and carbon then stick in some squares of micron pad in the multiple slots on the back of the plastic filter frame. I have some PureFlo 100-micron pad, is that good?

Blub

SereneReyn

whatever works! you'll probably wind up saving yourself a lot of money, not buying those cartridges all the time!

treehugr

You aint kidding. We'll try that way. Do you suggest taking out the carbon filter now, or wait until the cloudiness clears up?

SereneReyn

you can wait a little while. though i doubt the cloudiness will hurt anything.