shollia

My piggies are doing great it seems! The 3 girls were SUPER fat last night.. specially Bully, but this morning when I woke, it looks like some might've dropped some eggs b/c they're looking a bit slimmer.

I'm gonna try to fish out some more "fry" if I see anymore.
We went and got one of those breeder net things from Walmart last night and I put one of the "things" that I scooped out into it. It looks like it's doing ok for now :P heh

0morrokh

Glad to hear they're doing well! That's pretty sweet if you have fry.
You know...if you keep them in a breeder net, they will soon be very cramped and not have enough room. Also you would have to feed them special fry food which I don't know if you have or not. You might be better off leaving them in the tank. Fry can take care of themselves and a few may not get eaten. They will find their own food and get nice and big before you even know they're there. (happened to me with Guppies once) Also idk how fry will handle being moved.

shollia

OK.. if I end up doing another water change tomorrow... I'll do as I did today, but if I find any.. I'll put them back into the regular area... I'll try to make sure they're put back into either one of the fake plants or as near the rocks as possible to reduce their chances of being eaten.

0morrokh

You know, I had Guppy fry and I didn't even know I had them until they were too big to be eaten and came out of hiding. Fry are super fast too. If they've survived a few days I don't see why they shouldn't continue to do so.

shollia

Time to resurrect my first thread b/c I have questions! heh

Alrighty.... so it seems my tank is finally cycling.
I've been doing water changes almost every day now. Usually about 10-20% with a 40-50% about once a week.
However.. with me doing those frequent water changes.. the ammonia lvls have been staying at a constant 2.0-3.0 for about a week now and I'm just worried that this is going to harm my fish.

Should I be doing larger water changes? Would ammonia at that lvl be harmful to my fish?
With me doing water changes that frequently.. about how long would it take for me to start seeing a drop and start seeing more nitrites? I need to go get a liquid nitrite & nitrate tester so I'm not sure if we do have any now or not since those strip tests aren't vert reliable.
And yeah... I have more questions but I've forgotten them :P

kerryve

ammonia at any level is harmfull to your fish, but, at that level your nitrite will rise with in the next two days or so, do a small water change, (this is what ive done and my fish are healthy) your ammonia wont change too much but the fresh water helps out alot, as soon as you see a nitrite reading your ammonia will start to drop on its own. nitrites will remain high for about a week. but just do lots of small water changes, bigger ones dont allow the bacteria to grow.

you still have 0ppm Nitrite?

shollia

Well I'm not sure.
I MIGHT have a .5 reading, but those test strips are so hard to read.
I'm gonna see about getting a liquid one but we won't probably get one til this weekend.. if that.

I'll continue to do the small water changes though.

Thanks for the help!

shollia

YAAAY

Finally after what seems like forever.... we're finally starting to get nitrite readings!! WOO!
Even though we still haven't gotten liquid testers yet.... the strips are definitly picking up nitrite in the water.
I was starting to get a bit worried that I was doing too many water changes there for a min when the ammonia kept reading at 2.0 and didn't seem to be going down or going up any, but I didn't want to stop the water changes fearing that my fish would get more stressed than they already are.
I'm just glad that I'm finally seeing signs that our tank is indeed cycling.... slowly... but surely.
Now I just have to keep at it and make sure my fish come out as good as possible... BOY I wish I had actually read and paid attention to the cycling....I let our impatience get the better of us.. but that won't happen again whenever we get another tank

0morrokh

Sweet So now you're halfway done... (I can hear you yelling, noooooo, only HALF way!!??!!) hehe just messin with you No actually I think once you get nitrites the cycle picks up a bit. Hopefully you'll be done cycling pretty soon.
You're doing right to do water changes if the ammonia readings are 2...that's WAY too high, in fact if they won't lower I would advise doing even bigger changes. Although...it's possible the strips are lying (like they will sometimes do) and giving you a higher reading than you actually have. :P

shollia

Pooo... you had me going there for a minute! heh... Even though half way through isn't that bad!

Oh no no... we went out and got a liquid ammonia tester
We just don't have ones for the other things to test for.. such as nitrite/nitrate. I'm still stuck using the strips for those.. but we've had the liquid ammonia test for a little while now heh

I tested twice today.... first time the color was a bit lighter than it has been... also tested about an hour ago and the color is alot lighter... from the chart.. the ammonia is at 1.0.
If it's still that low tomorrow I'll still do the regular 10% water change, but if it's back to 2.0 again I'll do a bigger water change

0morrokh

Actually I think you'd better do a bigger water change even if the ammonia is reading 1.0--that sounds low but technically any level over .25 is very toxic. The ammonia shouldn't go back up to 2.0 at this point since it's beginning to convert to nitrite. You'll want to make sure to at least get the nitrite liquid test kit so you can accurately monitor the nitrite spike. Once you start getting nitrites you should try to keep them at a max fo 0.5 PPM.

shollia

I was only going to do a 0% again today, b/c the ammonia read at about 0.5... but I went ahead and did a 20% water change b/c from the strips.. it seems that the nitrites are getting pretty high.
It looks like we're getting nitrate readings as well.
Uunfortunatly.. I dunno if we're gonna be able to go to the petstore once again... even though i really want to. BF has to work late tonight and well.. I don't drive.. *sigh*

shollia

Oh the ammonia is disappearing so fast!! This is just so exciting! *squeels*
The nitrites seem to be spiking though... and according to ths trips I'm getting nitrate readings.
So about how much longer do you folks think our tank has before it's done cycling?

We still haven't gotten those dang liquid nitrite and nitrate testers yet *smacks bf mentally*... I'm making my brother take me out to the petstore tomorrow though so I can get some... and possibly a tank for my desk muahahaha.... :P If I do get one.. I'll definitely be cycling it fishless!

shollia

Alrighty.... I did tests today... and the ammonia was ALMOST gone. The color was almost yellow that indicates it's 0 ammonia.

I got my brother to take me out to ge tthe nitrite and nitrate liquid testers finally (thank god one was on sale.. expensive!! sheesh.. but also grabbed a 10gal tank! muahahaha)
Came home and tested both of those and well....
It looks like both nitrite and nitrate are spiking really bad.
I'm not sure what's going on... is this normal?

From the chart and the color the water turned... nitrites were almost at the max 5.... while nitrates were between 40-80. I did a 50% water change b/c I got really worried...... I just thought that nitrites were supposed to spike.. then would go down and nitrates would gradually go up?

0morrokh

Did you mean your nitrites are 5 or .5?

I'm not sure if it's normal or not to get such a high nitrite and nitrate spike. Could be your tap water. Fill a glass with tap water, let it sit overnight, and test it for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

Make sure from now on your nitrites don't get above .25 and your nitrates don't get above 20. Although, with so few fish in such a big tank, you shouldn't need to worry about nitrates unless you are overfeeding.

shollia

Ya know, that's probably it.... me overfeeding them. I fed them less for a little while then went right back to my "Oh they look hungry!.. Lemme feed them!" ways
I'll watch how much I'm feeding them.

I just did another test... nitrites were at .25 and nitrates were at 20.
Hoping those stay low... hate doing large water changes.. I have to take out the breeders net and stick it into a container of water really quick.. always makes me so nervous that the fry are gonna get stressed from that.


In lighter news.. sorta... I set up the 10gallon finally! YAY!
Think I'm gonna have to get a new air pump though... and another air wand thing.... and a divider... and gravel.... and plants.. and decor...... and new bulbs that don't light up with a pee yellow color...... other than that.. YAY!!! Another step closer to my bettas... muahahahaha

0morrokh

Glad to hear your water parameters are back into the safe zone. With only--4, right?--danios in there, you do not need to be feeding much at all. They say that you should feed what the fish can eat in 3-5 minutes...well that's a bunch of I won't say what, if you fed them as much as they could eat for that long they'd explode. Remember a fish's stomach is only as big as their eye. A couple flakes each, twice a day, is all they need. I know it's soooo hard to resist their begs and pleads...but less food = less water changes hehehehe.

Well I'm glad you set up your 10 gal. Let me know if you have any questions about cycling it fishless. You're going to have a divided tank with a male and female betta, right?--or am I thinking of someone else?

shollia

That's me!

Think I should wat to try to start cycling it until I have some gravel? Or doing it without some will be fine? Dunno why keeping some would make any difference.. but well.. ya never know heh.

Question about fishless cycling.... all I have right now is fishfood to start with... if later on down the road I get my hands on some ammonia.. would it be ok to start using it instead of the food? Would that mess up what cycling was already done to the tank or anything like that?

Oh and also... with using the flakes cycling.... about how long would that take? Like just a guesstimate.
Oh and another one... heh...... during the cycling.. do I need to be using an airpump?

0morrokh

It doesn't matter what you're cycling with--as long as you're providing a source fo ammonia, the bacteria aren't picky eaters However...once your other tank is cycled you can take some used media from that filter and put it into the new tank, and you have an instant cycled tank. Or you could run the new filter in the cycled tank for 2 weeks and that will seed it.

If you cycle with flakes...differen't people say different times. It took me around 7 weeks to cycle with flakes but others say they did it in 3-4. If you can get ammonia though I have heard of people cycling a tank with that in just a week (though that's unusual...). Or, you can cut time if possible and use one of my 'cheat' methods I described above.

If the air pump is just to run an air stone for oxygen/circulation purposes then no, I don't think you would need it while cycling.

I think that answers all your questions, let me know if there's anything I missed.

shollia

I keep seeing that mentioned to use some of the filter media to cycle the other tank with...exactly how is that done? Am I supposed to cut some of the filter off of the cycled tank (whenever it's done that is) and just plop it into the new filter? Wouldn't that mess up the cycled filter any? Or am I supposed to have a backup filter for the cycled tank? heh

Thanks for answering all my questions!! I'm so giving you a mental hug and highfive right now :P lol

0morrokh

You're welcome
If you choose the cheat method of using old filter media....just cut some of the old, cycled filter media from the old filter and put it into the new filter. What I might do is cut the old media in half and put new media in the "old" tank--and then stick a half of the old media in behind the new media in both filters. What kinds of filter do you have in each tank?
Taking out some of the filter media doesn't hurt a matured tank because there is so much good bacteria everywhere it can easily re-multiply to make up for what is lost. After all, you will eventually need to change the filter media when it becomes clogged.
However, if you are still worried, the most fool-proof method of 'cheating' is just running the new filter in a cycled tank...then you don't need to worry about losing bacteria in the old tank.

shollia

Not sure what kind of filters we have... it's just whatever came with the aquarium.. some sorta Top Fin brand... the filters look like well.... a bagged air conditioner filter.


Anywho! I swear my fish are going to give me a freaking heart attack!!!!
Came home from petsmart (wanted to get a heater but dang are they expensive!).... and looked in my tank to see how fish are doing... and guess what??
My gal with fin rot is missing!!! I looked around the entire tank and she was nowhere! Then I was messing with some stuff.. and to my surprise.. I see a tiny little tail sticking out from under one of the bigger black rocks we have in the tank!! OMG I about had a heartattack! I got ir off of her.. and a few others that were apparently on her and she darted out. WHEW. I'm glad I found her when I did.... I dunno if she did it on purpose.. or was perhaps looking for food or something and the rock fell on her... but that scared the bejebus out of me.

0morrokh

Fish do have a tendency to like giving their owners heart attacks. :P Glad she's ok.

Are your filters the power filters that hang on the back of the tank and sucks the water up through a tube?

shollia

Yep.. those are the kind we have.

The one my mom gave me also has one of those but unfortunatly, her tank wasn't built for that type of filter apparently b/c the top doesn't fit when you have a power filter It's alright for now, but I'm just afraid my brother's little 2 yr old is going to stick something in there when no one is looking. She's been good so far around the new tanks. Just looking and not touching them, but the little tank is closer to her reach so.. ya never know

Update on my fin rot gal.. I haven't moved her into her quarantine tank yet.... I'm going to as soon as I wake up tomorrow though Once again, to my horror.. when I went to check the nitrite and all that mess, I noticed that she's now missing half of her tail fin. How that happened is beyond me. Maybe when she darted out she hit the plastic plant and it cut it off, or maybe I did it by accident when I was freeing her.. or something.. *shrugs* It doesn't look "nipped"... just looks like it was cut off cleanly.

Anywho! How long should I keep her in the hospital tank? My brother got me tetracycline tablets for the finrot.. and it says it's a 5 day treatment... but should I keep her in longer?
If I do, then when should I do a water change after I stop medicating? Right afterwards?

EDIT: Think I'm going to stick the male in there as well. His fins are a bit frayed and it wouldn't hurt just in case would it?

0morrokh

She should be in the q tank at least until her fins are making good progress healing. You could wait until she if fully healed but that would take a long time.

The general rule for treating finrot is to treat until the fins have stopped rotting away and started re growing. (Which will probably require more than one treatment of 5 days) At this point the bacteria is killed off and it is just a matter of waiting for the fins to grow back. However, it may not be a bad idea to add something like Melafix at that point to help the fins to re grow. Oh and also turn the temp up to about 83, to help the fins heal.

So put her in the q tank (with carbon removed from the filter), medicate for 5 days, do a huge water change and then continue medicating until fins have started regrowing. Then do another huge water change, remove the tetracycline with carbon, and (optional but would be a good idea) dose with Melafix for a bit to help heal the fins. At least that's how I would go about treating it.

Yes that would be a good idea to stick the male in too. The meds won't harm him even if his fins heal much faster than hers.

Is the q tank cycled? Because if it isn't then the instructions for medicating may change slightly if you feel you need to do water changes more than every 5 days to keep the water quality good.

shollia

No the tank isn't cycled unfortunatly.. I just got ahold of it today.. and I know my mother hasn't used it for quite some time.
Is it still ok to use though even if it isn't cycled?
Since it's not, how often should I do water changes?

When you say continue medicating after the huge water change... do you mean with the tablets or with Melafix?

shollia

BOY are danios freaking hard as to catch!!!!! Good god... those suckers were just darting everywhere. I got lucky catching the fin rot gal.. she panicked and went to the top of the water....
She WAS trying to burrow into the gravel which surprised the out of me. All of a sudden I saw her nose dive into the gravel and start wiggling... then suddenly she must've found the right opening and she disappeared
Well.. I guess I now know how they keep disappearing......

The male was just a pain in the butt to catch... he kept hiding behind all of my plants so I had to risk damaging the plants to get him. *SIGH* I don't wanna do that ever again.

I'm not liking this hex tank though... there seems to be a pretty strong current at the bottom of the tank for some reason. I have no idea why. Getting my brother to go to Dollar General to get me some rocks to put in there. I know it was recommended to leave it bare, but I'm hoping that adding some gravel/rocks it will help this weird current that's happening.

They're also not liking their temp home heh.
Oh well... it's gotta be done to make them all better.

shollia

Uuuugh... bf needs to get home already so we can get a better filter for this hex tank! I think the filter that my mom gave me for it is too powerful.. and that's what is causing the current at the bottom. My poor male danio was trying to rest near the bottom and he couldn't b/c he kept having to fight the current. I cut one of the sponge filter things that I got and put it where the water flows out, but all that did was make the water rise in the filter so it was almost overflowing.. and there was still the current at the bottom... *shrugs* Should I just turn it off? I'm kinda afraid to as I don't know how that's going to affect water quality and I'm not sure if I did, when I should be doing water changes since I'm medicating. Think I could get by by turning the filter off at night and then cutting it back on during the day?
Really hope they're gonna be ok... the top of the tank seems to be calm though.. so I hope they can rest up top....They seem to be having alot of fun now though. They keep playing with eachother and swimming through the disturbance the filter is making up top.


Few questions... how do you keep a quarantine tank cycled?
Am I just supposed to empty it whenever I'm not using it? Am I supposed to have some fish in there to keep it cycled?
Like when we start getting new fish... put them in the Q tank for a week or 2... then take them out.. so where does that leave the Q tank? Am I making any sense? Lol



EDIT: I unplugged it for now... it was just breaking my heart watching them trying to relax but not being able to. I really hope this won't cause any harm.

0morrokh

I assume you mean you unplugged the filter in the q tank right? Now, normally I would never adivse anything like that, but since the q tank isn't cycled a filter isn't going to do anything. So perhaps it is better to save them from some stress from the filter.

Well, since their main tank isn't cycled either, I don't see what difference an uncycled q tank would make. I think you should still use the q tank because it is easier to keep the water clean in a smaller tank, since you are able to do bigger water changes.
You need to be doing water changes as often as possible...oh I don't know...just test the water in there asap and you will have to decide if you need to do a water change in the middle of treatment. Then you would have to put back the amount of meds you removed. Are you following me?

Medicating:
Turn temp up to 83 degrees.
Treat with tetracycling for 5 days.
I'm guessing the fish won't be healed by that time, so do a 75+% water change and treat with tetracycline for another 5 days.
Do another 75+% water change.
Now add carbon to remove all the tetracycline (you will need a filter to put the carbon in).
At this point if the tetracycline hasn't made any difference you may need to switch to another finrot med. Personally I don't know how good tetracycline is. I have had good success with Jungle Fungus Clear. Or, if the fish are improving but still have a long ways to go, you could skip the carbon step and opt to do another round of tetracycline. However read the label...for some meds there is a limit for how many times you can treat.
Once the tetracycline is removed completely, I would recommend dosing with Melafix to help heal the fins and just as an extra precaution.
***during the 5 day treatments, it may be that the ammonia in the tank will get too high. If that happens, you may need to do a smaller water change in the middle of treatment as I described above.

Hopefully that clarified it a little...

Btw, if you think catching your danios was hard...try catching Otos in a tank with so much algae you can't see them (but they can swim as fast as your danios I'm sure...)

shollia

Lol.. that must've been super fun :P heh
Thanks so much for the advise!
I'm not sure how accurate testing would be since the water is a yellowish color b/c of the medication.

Would using an ammonia neutralizer affect the medication any?