Lucy_kk

I am very upset, i have just glanced into my tank and i saw this white thing at the bottom near the filter, i was like "what on earth is that" ( i didnt know if maybe it was part of skanky plant of somethng). On closer inspection i saw it was a DANIO CARCASS which is when i started to freak out, because danios are like the hardiest things in my tank therefore i was expecting a massive ammonia issue and them all to die.

But when i fished her out (no pun intended) i looked and she (or he) had a MASSIVE hole underneath and like all her guts were gone and this sounds really silly but i swear around the hole were knasher marks (like tiny mouth holes) and also her eyes were gone. This must have happened like in the last hour or so also as they were all there before i went out at 4pm and when i got her out it was 5.30. I have dont a bit of a water change and have checked the nitrite level and it is fine, possibly slightly elavated but thats all. I will make sure i keep checking but i am more worried about this barbaric act of presumably terrotry?

I have a killer in the tank, all my fish were healthy, none under the weather that i could observe. Although i have noticed one of the danio girlies is VERY fat and she has been being chased alot by definately two boys. The other deceased unknown gender one used to sometimes chase, sometimes not.

I have never had fish die by aggression (that i know of).

Very confused, please help, what should i do, i am toying with th idea of moving my 2 white clouds out of the tropical tank at least for the time being because then they can have the unheated temp they rly need and they are way smaller than everything now even my neons and i have them the longest and am quite attached to them..

Sorry for massiveness of this thread..

saulPAB

awww that sucks i'm sorry to hear about that.

sorry i dont have any suggestions.. my tank has barely finished cycling..

Isabella

I've looked at your fish list in your 10 gallon tank, and I have to say your tank is very overstocked. Overstocking will inevitably lead to aggression. The fish was obviously attacked and eaten by some other fish, presumably by the strongest and biggest fish of the tank. The culprit could be one of the gouramis. How large is your rainbow and what kind is this?

The only other scenario could be that your fish got sick and died. When a fish dies and is not removed from the tank, other fish may pick at it and eat it. So that's what could have had happened in your case.

Lucy_kk

My rainbows are neon blue dwarf really small (less than an inch long)
-See attatched pic, altho mine are still smaller than that!
I know my tank is overstocked altho my female gourami died in quarantine so i do only have one gourami and also my tank maybe slightly larger tham 10gallons it changes everytime i work it out and also that is in UK gallons which seem 'less' than US gallons right?
Either way i am aware i need a bigger tank, its just finding somewhere to out it... last night though, i did move my white clouds so they wouldnt be the next to go and they seem very happy in there new home (albeit shorter than my big-but-not-big-enough tank everything is in now).

Thanks for your time and advice
Lu

Attached Images

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Isabella

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...fm?pCatId=1059 - this is the rainbow which you have. It grows up to 3" in length and it should be housed in a tank AT LEAST 20 gallons in volume (around 17 UK gallons). It is a peaceful fish, so it's probably not the culprit; the gourami must be the attacker. Personally, I wouldn't keep even smallest gouramis in anything smaller than 20 gallons.

P.S. 10 UK gallons = 12 US gallons, so your tank is still largely overstocked. To what tank size did you move the minnows? I suppose this will have to do for now, until you get a larger tank. When you get it, provide a lot of hiding places for your fish. This should disperse the aggression. Also, perform enough water changes in the meantime, so that nitrate from overcrowding will not build up to dangerous levels.

Good luck.

Lucy_kk

I know, i know i feel like i am being told off i do feel really guilty but at the moment there is nothing i can do about this dilemma, i cant just buy a bigger tank as i have no where to put it, i am 17- going to uni next year, living with my parents at the moment and so i only have my room space and the tank i have now is long and narrow and on my only clear (ish) surface, it is basically impossible to find a larger tank that will fit there. I am going to look for an acyrilic one this w/e though.

I think they are my rainbows except, my rainbows have absolutely no red on them at all. Its kinda yellow, but def not red. Dont know if this makes any difference to breed? I doubt it

Lucy_kk

Those are my rainbows

Attached Images

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sasha

HI* lucy, your danio prob died of natural causes and NOT agression from other fish. As soon as a fish dies or is about to die the other fish start taking nibbles out of it and the eyes are usually the first to be eaten we had 2 fantails that were killed by our lobster(who has now been evicted since we found out it was him) and there was basicly nothing left of them as the other fish thought YIPPEE!!! fresh food!! also the way i see it is as long as you keep regular water changes and checking parameters your fish will be perfectly fine til you get a bigger tank. I know what you mean about feeling like you have been told off it's not right. ppl come on here to get advice but yet we are constantly told our tanks are well overstocked or we must take fish that grow quite big back to the pet shop and not to get large fish again, all this "advice" is coming from ppl that have overstocked tanks themselves why is it ok for them but not ppl like us that are moderatly experianced in fish keeping.as an example in my 4 ft tank i have 1 6 inch ghost koi, 3 3-4 inch koi,2 4 inch orfes, 7 various types of goldfish, 1 ghost shrimp, 1 4 inch common plec and 2* 5 inch japanese weather loaches and yes i know my tank is overstocked but for the past 6 months they have been perfectly happy growing and are even very friendly, swimming thru your hands etc, we do water changes every wed n sun and have had absolutly no problems whatsoever with them so we never give any advice on how much fish to keep in your tank as we personnaly think it is how you look after your tanks and not how much fish you have in them!! EG 8 angel fish in a 30 us gallon tank = 24.99 uk minus plants decor etc takes it down even less! is also classed as overstocked and would require app 150 gallon tank,if you preach summit, you should practise it yourself.....

Mike

Lucy and sasha - please don't take the advice given to you like you're being "told off". Isabella is just trying to help you. Would you rather we told you that it is perfectly acceptable to overstock your tank even though you perform daily water changes? That you can keep a pacu in a 10 gallon tank? Telling you those things would be false information and we would be doing a disservice to you and your fish.

Isabella

I agree Sasha, fish often do eat other fish that has just died, which is what I have told Lucy. If you go back to my previous posts, you'll see it.

Once again, I agree on that one: the fish will be fine IF you keep regular water changes UNTIL you get that bigger tank. They will NOT, however, be fine in the long run IF the tank is overstocked - this promotes aggression.

Sasha, I have not been trying to put Lucy down, if this is how you are taking this. I am here for one purpose only: to help people. I am a volunteer moderator, I use my own time to help people, and I'd never take any money for doing this. This is what I love. I love helping people. However, if you believe my advice is useless, you're free not to utilize it. Also, if you believe that the moderators of this board are giving out wrong and misleading information, you do NOT have to come here. No one is forcing you to do this. It's up to you. I, however, personally know 100% that the advice I give out is not misleading - I'd feel wrong if I gave out false information on purpose. It is not my fault that many people overstock their tanks (and sorry if you don't like the fact that your tank is overstocked but I am going to tell you the truth whether you like it or not) but when I try to make people realize that overstocking isn't good for fish, this should be taken as a good advice, rather than putting people down. I am not telling all of these things to Lucy and to many other people to disappoint them; on the contrary, I am doing this to HELP THEM. This is why this forum exists. The sole fact that you are a member of this forum and ask questions, indicates that there is a need for such forums; otherwise, you wouldn't be here if you didn't need any help.

What you are forgetting Sasha is that we have answered many of your own questions as well, and yet - it seems - you do not appreciate our help, which is kind of sad, if you will. Let me give a few examples of the many times when you have personally asked for our opinion (and which all of us were more than happy to give you):

http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg35347
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg34963
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg34771
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/betta-....html#msg34625
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg34607
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg34442
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg34262
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg34101
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg34036
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg32375
http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/freshw....html#msg32181

I think that's about all topics by you, or sorry if I have missed any.

As I have said before, I don't think keeping a tank overstocked TEMPORARILY is wrong as long as you perform enough water changes so that the water is free of, or has very low, nitrate. All this is OK if it's temporary, meaning you'll soon get a larger tank or give away some of the fish so that your tank is stocked properly. You cannot reasonably believe that it's perfectly OK for too many fish to be packed into a small tank, and live there until they die. This is not a good life - they suffer. In fact, even very lightly stocked tanks do not even come close to what fish would normally have in nature. Fish are delicate creatures living in a totally different environment than creatures that can breathe in open air. You can't just pack as many fish and as many different kinds of fish as you please into one tank. And we HAVE TO take all of this into account if we want to make our fish as happy as possible. Changing water is not enough. You MUST consider the space and tankmates as well.

Now, YES, my tank IS overstocked AS OF NOW. But, first of all, you do not know my situation and the reason why it is overstocked, as well as for how long it will be overstocked, so you cannot criticize me for something you do not know about me. I am not criticizing you or Lucy, instead I try to help you when you ASK for that help. If you want to know about my tank, why don't you just ask me? My tank has nothing to do with Lucy's tank or with her situation. But since we're on the subject of my tank, I have no problem telling you more about it. First of all, the 8 agnels are NOT all adults - and that makes a world of a difference. Baby and even adolescent angels produce much less wastes than adult and fully grown angels do. Only 2 of the angels are adults, and the rest 6 of them are adolescents. I perform 50% water changes twice a week in this tank, so that nitrate is as low as possible. Now, they have not been there for a very long time - they're there only temporarily. I am in the process of getting and setting up a 75 gallon tank either for all of my angels or for only 2 of them - the rest will be found appropriate homes. I have no slightest intention in keeping them all in a 30 gallon tank for the rest of their lives. In fact, my tank is not overstocked (and if it is, it's just a little bit) because these fish are not that big yet. All of which gives me the time to get the bigger tank.

Let me add that the reason I have so many angels in a 30 gallon tank is NOT because I have bought that many, so that my tank would be overstocked - as you have implied. My adult pair has spawned and the eggs made it into wigglers. I had no choice but to raise them, since I cannot kill any life. This is my situation, of which you did not know, and yet you have criticized blindly. Anyway, there were a total of 11 baby angels, 5 of which have already been given away to proper and not overstocked homes, while the rest are soon either going to go to a 75 gallon tank, or also to appropriate homes.

Lastly, 8 - even adult - angelfish WOULD NOT require a 150 gallon tank, lol. However, when getting angelfish, it's usually their temperament that dictates numbers (and provided that a tank is large enough - 30 gallons being the smallest for a pair), and therefore only 2 angels are usually best per ONE TANK, the tank being at least 30 gallons in volume. Eight adult angels in a 75 gallon tank woudl perhaps be a bit overstocked, but even if it weren't, I am not going to keep 8 of them in that tank - this is because of their temperaments.

There is a difference between having a tank overstocked with all adult fish that produce a lot of wastes, and all young or adolescent fish that do not yet produce that much waste. And TEMPORARILY keeping young or adolescent fish in, what would normally be too small a tank for them if they were all adult, is not that much of overstocking as it is "buying" some time. Now, Lucy DOES NOT "have" to heed my advice at all - it's up to her, of course. All I do is give out the advice that I believe and know in my heart IS correct. And that's all I'll ever do. I do not "command" you all to do as I say. It's UP TO YOU. But if it happens that any of your fish gets sick and die, please do not blame me, for I have tried to help you IN ADVANCE.

I believe this will be it as for my reply. I hope you have read it all.

Gunnie

Guys, please don't take the advice given the wrong way. We are all just concerned about your fish and so you will continue to enjoy the hobby. Fish can get expensive to replace, and it's very disheartening to watch your fish get sick when your water is not quite right. We have all been there, and don't want you making the same mistakes we did while starting in the hobby. Isabella is right on with her advice which is all it is. You are welcome to take it or not take it. We are here merely to help you, so please keep that in mind. It would be irresponsible of us not to tell you the truth to your questions.

Butterfly

Lucy I'm sorry you lost your fish we always feel sad when one dies especially for unknown reasons. When they die the other fish will take advantage of a free meal.
You already know your tank is overstocked and nobody is trying to make you feel bad about that just trying to help you help the rest of your fish survive. When you buy fish in the future check their adult size and make sure you have room for them before you buy them, that way you won't have to worry about overstocking and aggression again
As for the fish you have now I think that extra water changes will make them more comfortable.
I really don't have too much to add since you've already received tons of good advice.
Carol

ChrisRamo

Sorry to hear about your fish.

As someone said earlier your tank is stocked waaay too much