starywary

Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum and new to fishkeeping, and I have some concerns. My son won a betta for being student of the month in preschool, and of course he came in the little tiny bowl with a tiny container of water conditioner and free dried bloodworms. I put him in an approx. 1 gallon vase, with some small river rocks on bottom and a small plastic plant, I had one of those stick on thermometers and it was reading about 77 degrees on average without a heater or filter or anything else for that matter. I fell in love with the fish, (named Cinderella) and kept him on my computer desk where he kept me very amused with his personality. I began reading up more and found a 10 gallon set up on craiglist for 25 bucks that included a stand, heater, Second Nature power Filter, another plastic plant, an undergravel filter, and a small air pump. I went with the power filter instead of the UGF, and started using the heater last week, before that the water was reading about 78degrees. I keep it on fairly low, so the temp is 80, and I keep the filter on the lowest setting I can. At first I wasnt sure if Cinderella liked the movement of the water, but it seemed like he was playing in it a bit, and things were looking good. Please keep in mind I knw hardly anything about fishkeeping, and as I did more reasearch (which I know should have been done beforehand) I realize that I did a lot of things wrong. I am not trying to defend my actions, I know a lot of what I am doing with my tank is probably making a few of you cringe, lol, but I'm here looking for help, cuz I really have grown attached to my little guy. One of the mistakes I made I think was that about only 4 days after setting up the tank and putting the betta in (which I did after about 24 hours of leaving the filter on, I added a tiny albino cory catfish.

My betta has always seemed so healthy, despite the bad care I probably gave him, but recently he has gotten sick, and I am getting scared. The cory seems fine to me, but it's hard to even tell what's going on with that tiny thing. A couple days after I had put the cory in the tank, Cinderella made the most fabulous bubble nest he's ever made so far, and his colors were extra bright and he was being playful and seemed very happy. A couple days after that I noticed the water was a little bit cloudy. Not drastically, but enough that I noticed.
I started reading more and figured it was just the new tank cycling. I admit I wasn't sure if I should put the betta in the new tank right away, let alone adding a cory after a few days, but I did it. OK, here is part that weill make you all cringe... I don't have a test kit yet, I just can't afford it until the first. So although I assume my tank is going through the New tank Syndrome I read about, without any idea of ammonia and nitrite levels I am going on guessing.
For the last day and half I noticed my betta acting funny. He has a sort of irridescent coating of something on his gill area, he's pretty pale, and last night he started staying to the bottom of the tank. I really don't want to lose him, please help!
I have done 2 10% water changes a day apart, I though maybe he was getting ammonia poisoning. If he is, how do I treat it? I will borrow money or something to get medicine, I just want this guy to live. I know I could get another betta if something happened, but I love this little guy, and I don't want to just give up on him, especially since I put him in this mess.

Just about an hour ago, I put him back in one of those small bowls. The gallon vase isn't completely cleaned and I thought it might be better to put him in there because I'm afraid he's going to drown being so far from the surface and looking as tired as he is. He is still at the bottom of the bowl, although he did put up quite a chase to get him in the net. I hope that and keeping him in here is not going to stress him out even more, but I just didn't know what to do and I want to help him. I'm so sorry this is so long, like I said, I just fell in love with this little fish, and I want to make him better. Please help! I can probably get pics of him tomorrow. Thank you.

clinton1621

Moving him probably made it worse because of stress... also he needs to be in filtered and heated water right now. Without knowing your readings its impossible to know exactly where your ammonia and nitrite levels are, but since you already know that it isnt cycled yet and that the water is cloudy from a bacteria bloom, then I would say almost 100% that he has ammonia poisoning (which would explain the gills looking weird and his behavior). First off you need to do a 50% water change immediately to get the ammonia levels down, second you will want to get some Prime water conditioner to make the rest of the ammonia non toxic to the fish, third I would also recommend increasing aeration (an air pump and a bubbler) because of the damage to his gills, after that also try adding some VitaChem, a good stress coat, and maybe some garlic guard to the water to help him heal and feel better. You will need to get that test kit and test the water every day for ammonia levels, you will also need to change at least 50% of the water every day to keep the ammonia levels down until they drop off.

Lots of people have done this and even worse things when they first start out with fishkeeping so dont be too hard on yourself =)

Martinismommy

This is a tough one for sure.....

1st off welcome to fishlore......You've come to the right place for help....After reading your story I have to say you have not done bad at all....You did a wonderful thing by buying the 10 gallon....And quite honestly, I'd put him right back in it! What you are going to need to do is a 50% water changed daily for at least 30 days.......Taking him out and transferring him from tank to bowl is adding stress.....Just leave him in the 10 gallon...

Chief_waterchanger

(Fixed the double post, but don't worry about that, Star.) I hope your betta turns out to be alright and make it through the cycle.

Lucy

Hi starywary welcome to Fish Lore

For you to be so apologetic makes us sound like really scary people. lol Don't worry about the long post, you gave a lot of good information for everyone to figure out what's going on.

What counts is after you go him and did some research, you're doing your best to give your betta the best care you can, so for that, you get big betta hugs. lol

Now, on to what going on with your baby, what's his name?

I think your right in guessing he's feeling the effects of ammonia from the tank not being properly cycled and there maybe a couple more things going on.

Here's a basic explanation of the nitrogen cycle:
First your ammonia (from fish waste and left over food) will rise.
In a few weeks you'll see the nitrite levels rise and the ammonia levels start to drop.
After a few more weeks you'll see the nitrate levels rise and the nitrite levels drop.
Ammonia and nitrites are toxic to your fish.
So until your cycle is complete, you need to keep the levels down with daily water changes
When you having readings of 0 on both ammonia and nitrites with some nitrates showing, your cycle is done.

Here's a more in depth explanation of it:
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

Get the test kit as soon as you can, the API master kit is highly recommended and very reliable. Don't get the strips, they're inaccurate and a waste of money.

Use Prime as your water conditioner, it will help detoxify your ammonia for 24hrs in between water changes.

The next thing that comes to mind is he could be stressed from having the cory in there. Some bettas will accept them, some don't. Also, it's always good to quarantine any new inhabitants to your tank to make sure they're not bringing any illness with them.

Post a pic of his gills as soon as you can, someone will be able to see what's going on and recommend meds if need be. it sounds like he may have a fungal infection.

You can add a drop or two of garlic to his water, that'll help boost his immune system.

Remember, he was probably already in a weakened state when you got him leaving him open to illness.

He really needs to be kept in clean warm water now.
Is he eating? Does he look bloated?

Here's a good thread about betta care:
Welcome and Betta Care Guide - Please Read First!!!

Other members will be along shortly to help you also, if they haven't posted by the time I get done typing. lol

Good luck with your betta.

Edit: See 3 people posted before I got done typing.

Alessa

You did right Stary, I congratulate you for caring so much about the little guy. Just do 50% daily water changes for the 30 days. and please leave him in the 10 gallon, that is the best for him.
If you can get it, try Prime water conditioner, it is better since it helps your fish trough the nitrogen cycle, and it isnt that expensive.

Lots of hugs!

Lucy

I got to thinking, it's wonderful of your son to be rewarded for being Student of the Month, congrats to him.
But isn't it sad that a living being would be the prize when most people wouldn't bother to do research on it's care.

The child, who deserves recognition could be heart broken if the fish doesn't make it. What a memory. A really cool medal and a certificate is a better idea.

clinton1621

This is the second time today I've seen you get out typed lol, maybe try some typing classes

Just kidding

Lucy

There should be a rasberry smiley, I'd send it to you, clinton. lol

clinton1621

I had to try to lighten the mood lol, everyone thinks we are all evil on here

Lucy

We're not evil, we're overly passionate.

starywary

OMG you guys are the best! LOL. As soon as I read a few posts I put him right back in the tank, hope that little episode didn't add TOO much more stress, but to be honest he already looks a little happier, even if he doesn't look better, lol. I did another 10% water change, and tomorrow I will do a 50 % as suggested. A question about that.. for now, I'm not sure if it's really bad or not, but I am just using a gallon pitcher to scoop out a gallon (for the 10 % changes) and adding a gallon that I have left overnight and used bettasafe I think it's called. Is that an ok method for now? I would like to get a gravel vacuum and from what I understand you can use the siphoning method to do water changes?
BTW - thank you Chief waterchanger
Thank you everyone for the great advice, after reading through so much info online (and being a newbie trying to determine what seems right and what is utter nonsense, lol) it's good to get some consistent advice. I was checking out another forum before deciding which one to join, and as I read some of the answers, I thought, ok, of course on a forum you'll get some people who give totally wrong info, but the thing was, nobody replied saying it was wrong, there was just a few more outlandish replies, that even to me seemed way off. So it's nice to know I'm getting sound advice. Especially when it comes to products, it's already confusing enough, and then you have 20 people recommending 20 different things!

He seems to be eating fine though, but like I said I did decrease the feedings.
Oh, and I read somewhere that during this process it's better to keep lights off? I was using about a 14 hr on, 10 hr off cycle before that. Is that just adding more stress by keeping him in the dark?

I never thought of that with the cory, I did a little research to try and find a suitable tankmate that could help keep things a little cleaner, and Cinderella, the betta, checked him out a few times, not nipping, but just getting close, and now they just ignore each other. The cory is really tiny.
I had Cinderella about 3 months I'd say, maybe a little less, before moving him into the 10 g, and although he seemed to be doing good before, he was DEFINITELY happier with the move, it was great. I was very impressed with that bubble nest in the new tank I mentioned earlier!
I do have an air pump, I thought about adding it to get more aeration, like a few of you mentioned, but I have to get tubes and a check valve ( hope that's right) first. Would I just get an air stone and put it in the tank? Does it matter where in the tank?

I'm just trying to ask as many questions as I can think of, lol.
Thank you again for the help everyone so far, and I'll let you know how things go tomorrow. and get those pics. I'm trying to put up some pics of him when I first got him. He's just a little ol plain betta (is it called veiltail?) from a LFS, but I love him. (well, my son decided it was a girl and named it Cinderella, even though I said I knew for a fact it was a boy, lol)

starywary

I agree Lucy. Especially since he was not even 4 when he got the award! And he thought he won a fish to eat! LOL. I saw that the coupon was good for a year, and I waited until it was almost up to get it, just so he'd be a little older, but I ended up adopting the little guy anyway, although he does help feed it sometimes.
My sister had to be mean and point out that everyone gets to be student of the month, they just rotate, but I still thought it was cool, it's not like I thought it meant he was getting into Harvard or anything anyway, lol.

clinton1621

Yes you will want a gravel vac, not only is it much easier but you also need to suck up the poo and other waste from the bottom of the tank (in the gravel). The lighting really shouldnt make a difference... although 14 hours is a long time, you might end up with algae problems, try running them 10 to 12 hours max per day. Yes you just need the hoses and any type of bubble stone or wand for the pump... and it doesnt matter where you put it, as long as the bubbles dont get sucked up into your filter if you have a hang on the back type (this can damage it). The only issue with the cory that I can see if they are getting along is that corys like to be in a group of at least 3 or more... so the cory may be stressed from being alone along with the fact that he is stressed right now and also sick from the ammonia! We forgot about him

Lucy

We're glad you chose Fish Lore, the members here have a wide range of knowledge.

Ask all the questions you need to, all the members are happy to help.
I use a gravel vac in my tetra tank, but in the betta tank, I usually use a turkey baster to clean up after her. I also feed 1 pellet at a time, so I know theres no left over food.
Of course, with the cory, this may not work for you.
The gravel vac will also help you with water changes.
Scooping out the water like your doing is good too, no problems with that. Just make sure the water you put back in is around the same temp as the tank water.

I've never heard of betta safe, I use Prime or Stress Coat as my water conditioners. Since you're cycling, I'd recommend Prime.

I'm glad your cory and betts are getting along, just keep your eyes out for any trouble.

What's his name?

Edit: Clinton stop that! lol, I think SDS calls it getting ninja'd.

Stary, that was mean of your sister, your little man should be proud.

starywary

I got up and looked, he he, it's called Tetra Aqua BettaSafe Water Conditioner. It was just what the store recommended.
I did use a turkey baster when Cinderella was in the gallon vase, but I find it too hard in the tank, especially with the filter, but maybe I'm just being lazy. Although it doesn't seem like the gravel vac is necessarily much easier, but I've never used one.
I try to get the temp as close as I can, but I was amazed to find out how cool 80 degree water actually is! I'm glad I had a thermometer, I might have given my betta a jacuzzi.

I did read that about the cories, but I figured it would be too much to add a couple more of them right now, but I didn't think about it stressing him out to be alone, in this case, would it be better just to wait? I can't wait till I have the test kit to find out where I'm at as far as numbers, even though I knew better and should have waited until I had it to start the tank. I also thought about using a different fish to cycle the tank, but I felt bad setting up his new tank and putting someone else in it. ( I think I'm giving the fish too much credit, they probably can't feel tank envy can they? LOL)
Once again, thank you, I better get to bed already! I can't help it, I just keep checking on Cinderella.

clinton1621

I guess I should make my nickname the ninja then lol.

Stary, yes you should wait before you add anymore fish until you are 100% cycled.... and I saw your other thread before it was deleted about the 82 temp, you really dont want it that high ( 78 - 80 is good ) especially since his gills are damaged from the ammonia... the higher the temp is, the less oxygen he is getting in the water

Lucy

Duh, you did say his name was Cinderella, very cute.

You'll find that most of the information you get from fish stores is iffy at best.
Sometimes I think they call products 'betta this' or 'betta that' so they can charge more money.
Prime and water changes will be your best friend until your tank cycles.

Cycling purposely with fish is really not a preferred method, not only does it take longer, it's cruel to the fish.
I say purposely, because in your case, you didn't know about cycling.

Once Cinderella gets to feeling better you'll see, you can never give a betta too much credit. lol

starywary

Hi all! I haven't had a chance to read through the new posts yet, (I', running so late to work!) But I wanted to write quickly that Cinderella is looking much better. Not 100 % or anything, but definitely better. I did a 40% water change the next morning (after my last post) since I had done a 10 % so late the night before, added some garlic (who knew?) and even though I mentioned reading somewhere to keep the lights off, he really seemed happier or at least more lively with it on, so I'm just keeping it at the normal routine. I will shorten the on time though. He still has some of that irridescent stuff on his gills, but it really does look better, and his color is way brighter. ( although that could be why the gills look better in comparison - I did take pics but didn't put them up yet. ) ok, I better stop yapping, I gotta go. I'll write more later, and post those pics. Hopefully after work I can pick up some of the products you guys suggested. Bye and thanks!

Lucy

I'm glad to hear things are looking better!

Looking foward to some pics.

starywary

I hope this is ok, I didn't want to keep starting a new thread each time I posted....

Anyway... It's the Return of the Bubble Nest!!!!
I know it's not a sure sign that everything is back to normal (or I should say, getting better) but Cinderella actually built a pretty decent bubble nest today, something he has not done for days since all this started happening. Also, he hasn't been hanging out at the bottom of the tank- he's back to swimming all over, resting on leaves of plants, he even played one of our little games together! ( I know, it's a fish, not a dog, but he's just so **** cute!) Usually he flares at me, but he didn't. I know the conditions still aren't ideal, but I just can't get over how much just some water changes makes such a huge difference!. I feel so horrible that he was living in that poison soup.

ok, I have been working on getting pics up, but I am just way too tired - I keep falling asleep at my desk! I will get them up tomorrow.